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Thread: A continuation of our overall league history post

  1. #1

    A continuation of our overall league history post

    Including this season, we have spent 51% of our league history in the second tier of English football. To say this is where we arguably belong is probably an understatement. Only Barnsley, Hull, Leicester and Fulham have spent a greater ratio of their league campaigns in this division (Barnsley have spent 69% of their existence in the second tier).

    43 sides have spent a greater percentage of their seasons in the top flight than us, 41 have spent more seasons in total.

    69% of our league seasons have been in the top two divisions. That's a better record than all bar 38 clubs. It may be of some surprise to learn that we've spent more time in the top two flights than Crystal Palace, Bristol City, Watford and Brighton.

    Only 8 sides have never played outside the top two divisions. They are
    Everton
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Chelsea
    Manchester United
    Newcastle United
    West Ham United

    The sides who have spent more time than us in the top 2 divisions is as follows:

    Everton
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    Aston Villa
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Chelsea
    Manchester United
    Manchester City
    Newcastle United
    Sunderland
    West Bromwich Albion
    West Ham United
    Bolton Wanderers
    Blackburn Rovers
    Sheffield Wednesday
    Middlesbrough
    Stoke City
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Derby County
    Sheffield United
    Wimbledon
    Leeds United
    Birmingham City
    Burnley
    Nottingham Forest
    Southampton
    Leicester City
    Preston North End
    Coventry City
    Portsmouth
    Ipswich Town
    Huddersfield Town
    Charlton Athletic
    Norwich City
    Fulham
    Notts County
    Blackpool
    Queens Park Rangers
    Crystal Palace
    Bury
    Wigan Athletic

  2. #2
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Wigan surprises me, but not Bury or Notts County, due to the early years of football.

  3. #3

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Wigan surprises me, but not Bury or Notts County, due to the early years of football.
    Wigan didn’t enter the Football League until the 70s though. So the stats done percentage wise are a little bit misleading as up until then they were in the Northern League.

  4. #4

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Wigan didn’t enter the Football League until the 70s though. So the stats done percentage wise are a little bit misleading as up until then they were in the Northern League.
    Wigan's first game in the league was against Reading..away...only know that because a few of us were at Reading 78..The Jam..Sham..Quo..and a bunch of West Ham skinheads invited us to jump the turnstiles and steam into the ' northern ***** '...but we couldn't find them!..ended 0.0

  5. #5

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Including this season, we have spent 51% of our league history in the second tier of English football. To say this is where we arguably belong is probably an understatement. Only Barnsley, Hull, Leicester and Fulham have spent a greater ratio of their league campaigns in this division (Barnsley have spent 69% of their existence in the second tier).

    43 sides have spent a greater percentage of their seasons in the top flight than us, 41 have spent more seasons in total.

    69% of our league seasons have been in the top two divisions. That's a better record than all bar 38 clubs. It may be of some surprise to learn that we've spent more time in the top two flights than Crystal Palace, Bristol City, Watford and Brighton.

    Only 8 sides have never played outside the top two divisions. They are
    Everton
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Chelsea
    Manchester United
    Newcastle United
    West Ham United

    The sides who have spent more time than us in the top 2 divisions is as follows:

    Everton
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    Aston Villa
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Chelsea
    Manchester United
    Manchester City
    Newcastle United
    Sunderland
    West Bromwich Albion
    West Ham United
    Bolton Wanderers
    Blackburn Rovers
    Sheffield Wednesday
    Middlesbrough
    Stoke City
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Derby County
    Sheffield United
    Wimbledon
    Leeds United
    Birmingham City
    Burnley
    Nottingham Forest
    Southampton
    Leicester City
    Preston North End
    Coventry City
    Portsmouth
    Ipswich Town
    Huddersfield Town
    Charlton Athletic
    Norwich City
    Fulham
    Notts County
    Blackpool
    Queens Park Rangers
    Crystal Palace
    Bury
    Wigan Athletic
    A hundred years ago, Cardiff was, arguably, at its most powerful and influential as it was still a thriving port on the back of all that exporting of coal and, from this distance, it's surprising that a place of such importance only made it into the Football League just as Cardiff's status was beginning to decline in the run up to the Depression and General Strike,

    My guess is that Cardiff City's place in lists like Eric's would be a fair bit higher if we'd, say, joined the Football League at the time Riverside FC came about in 1899.

    I would argue that the first fifty years of City's existence in the Football League is more successful in terms of major trophies contested and time spent in the top flight than the second one, despite the city and surrounding areas being in something of a decline between 1920 and 1970. Okay, the partial recovery of the city in particular since 1970 has not restored it to its former glories, but its football and rugby clubs have still under achieved in the past half a century when it comes to matching the prosperity and status of the city they represent.

  6. #6

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead View Post
    Wigan's first game in the league was against Reading..away...only know that because a few of us were at Reading 78..The Jam..Sham..Quo..and a bunch of West Ham skinheads invited us to jump the turnstiles and steam into the ' northern ***** '...but we couldn't find them!..ended 0.0
    Cuddling up with West ‘Am.

    Shame on you, shame on you!

    Please tell me you didn’t make the effort to see the Quo?

  7. #7

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Including this season, we have spent 51% of our league history in the second tier of English football. To say this is where we arguably belong is probably an understatement. Only Barnsley, Hull, Leicester and Fulham have spent a greater ratio of their league campaigns in this division (Barnsley have spent 69% of their existence in the second tier).

    43 sides have spent a greater percentage of their seasons in the top flight than us, 41 have spent more seasons in total.

    69% of our league seasons have been in the top two divisions. That's a better record than all bar 38 clubs. It may be of some surprise to learn that we've spent more time in the top two flights than Crystal Palace, Bristol City, Watford and Brighton.

    Only 8 sides have never played outside the top two divisions. They are
    Everton
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Chelsea
    Manchester United
    Newcastle United
    West Ham United

    The sides who have spent more time than us in the top 2 divisions is as follows:

    Everton
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    Aston Villa
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Chelsea
    Manchester United
    Manchester City
    Newcastle United
    Sunderland
    West Bromwich Albion
    West Ham United
    Bolton Wanderers
    Blackburn Rovers
    Sheffield Wednesday
    Middlesbrough
    Stoke City
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Derby County
    Sheffield United
    Wimbledon
    Leeds United
    Birmingham City
    Burnley
    Nottingham Forest
    Southampton
    Leicester City
    Preston North End
    Coventry City
    Portsmouth
    Ipswich Town
    Huddersfield Town
    Charlton Athletic
    Norwich City
    Fulham
    Notts County
    Blackpool
    Queens Park Rangers
    Crystal Palace
    Bury
    Wigan Athletic
    I’ve just noticed Wimbledon on the list. Also didn’t join the league until the 70s. Now called Milton Keynes.

    I’m calling a stewards enquiry into them too.

  8. #8

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Cuddling up with West ‘Am.

    Shame on you, shame on you!

    Please tell me you didn’t make the effort to see the Quo?
    ...Jordi!..didn't have you as a Quo snob..did you join the Phil Collins snob group as well?

  9. #9
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Wigan didn’t enter the Football League until the 70s though. So the stats done percentage wise are a little bit misleading as up until then they were in the Northern League.
    yes of course, maths isn't my strong point

  10. #10

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Wigan didn’t enter the Football League until the 70s though. So the stats done percentage wise are a little bit misleading as up until then they were in the Northern League.
    I was looking at each team's performance for the duration of their league existance. It gives a stronger idea of how well they've done. No doubts that Wigan and Wimbledon were pretty successful for the shorter time they've been in the league, which wouldn't be represented at all if you just did a cumulative list.

  11. #11

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    A hundred years ago, Cardiff was, arguably, at its most powerful and influential as it was still a thriving port on the back of all that exporting of coal and, from this distance, it's surprising that a place of such importance only made it into the Football League just as Cardiff's status was beginning to decline in the run up to the Depression and General Strike,

    My guess is that Cardiff City's place in lists like Eric's would be a fair bit higher if we'd, say, joined the Football League at the time Riverside FC came about in 1899.

    I would argue that the first fifty years of City's existence in the Football League is more successful in terms of major trophies contested and time spent in the top flight than the second one, despite the city and surrounding areas being in something of a decline between 1920 and 1970. Okay, the partial recovery of the city in particular since 1970 has not restored it to its former glories, but its football and rugby clubs have still under achieved in the past half a century when it comes to matching the prosperity and status of the city they represent.
    I couldn't agree more.

    Thinking of top flight football, certainly our successes in the 1920s have never been matched since. My understanding is that, back then, players were generally local to the clubs themselves, when money had less of an effect on the game. I was surprised, then, to find out that, prior to 1970, 52 different teams had competed in the top flight. Since 1970, that number has risen to 56. However, prior to 1970 there were 21 different English Champions and only 12 since. Villa, Blackburn, Leicester and Forest have won one, Everton, Leeds and Derby two, so 40 of the last 50 champions has come from a pool of 5 clubs.

    It also appears that, in recent times, the footballing top table has increasingly come from the south east, with some traditionally stronger teams from the North and Midlands spending longer in the Championship. As that part of the country has grown economically, that's probably not a surprise.

  12. #12

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead View Post
    ...Jordi!..didn't have you as a Quo snob..did you join the Phil Collins snob group as well?
    My dislike of Quo is the direct consequence of my brother once running a pub where one of his regulars continuously played Quo and Meat Loaf on the jukebox. Each to their own mind

    Regarding Phil Collins he’s a Tory and I’d rather listen to tinnitus. He was crap in Buster too. The best thing I got to say about him is he looks like Edward Woodward (to me anyway). My wife used to listen to one of his album’s regularly. We lost it during a house move.

  13. #13

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I was looking at each team's performance for the duration of their league existance. It gives a stronger idea of how well they've done. No doubts that Wigan and Wimbledon were pretty successful for the shorter time they've been in the league, which wouldn't be represented at all if you just did a cumulative list.
    It’s an interesting list and well done on doing the statistics

    Notts County is an interesting one (for me). Never had them down as a regular in the top two divisions although I can remember them being in Division 1 for a few seasons and City played them during the 70s. Just shows how your personal memories don’t reflect the reality.

    Keep them coming butt.

  14. #14

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    yes of course, maths isn't my strong point

    Don’t put that on your CV butt

  15. #15

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    My dislike of Quo is the direct consequence of my brother once running a pub where one of his regulars continuously played Quo and Meat Loaf on the jukebox. Each to their own mind

    Regarding Phil Collins he’s a Tory and I’d rather listen to tinnitus. He was crap in Buster too. The best thing I got to say about him is he looks like Edward Woodward (to me anyway). My wife used to listen to one of his album’s regularly. We lost it during a house move.

    ...as you say J. each to their own...
    back in the day I played Electric Warrior to death , but still love it..

  16. #16

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Great research Eric the Half a Bee. Stats is my thing with City too. I must remind our 'friends' down West! And the attendances too.

    i think in the 100 years we have been in the FL, we have been above Swansea roughly two thirds of the time, but they only count the Premier League and forget they are essentially a second/third tier team. Not thatI have grudge against them of course, but they do need reminding. The last 10 years have been the greatest in their history, it's been pretty good for us too. But City in the 1920s were something, promoted in the first season, Winning the FA Cup, Welsh Cup and Charity Shield in the same year and another FA Cup Final and another FA Cup Semi Final too. We had to field a reserve team once as we had so many International call ups.

  17. #17

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Great research Eric the Half a Bee. Stats is my thing with City too. I must remind our 'friends' down West! And the attendances too.

    i think in the 100 years we have been in the FL, we have been above Swansea roughly two thirds of the time, but they only count the Premier League and forget they are essentially a second/third tier team. Not thatI have grudge against them of course, but they do need reminding. The last 10 years have been the greatest in their history, it's been pretty good for us too. But City in the 1920s were something, promoted in the first season, Winning the FA Cup, Welsh Cup and Charity Shield in the same year and another FA Cup Final and another FA Cup Semi Final too. We had to field a reserve team once as we had so many International call ups.
    We've been above Swansea 59 times. They've been above us 34 times.

    We've played in the same division 30 times. We've been one division above them 29 times and two divisions above them 13 times. They've been one division above us 21 times and two divisions above us once. When we've been in the same division, we've finished above them 17 times out of 29.

    Throughout the 1920s we finished above Swansea every season. This reversed throughout the 1930s as we plunged into Division 3.

    From 1950, we finished ahead of them for 29 consecutive seasons. Since 1979, they've been above us 23 times while we've been above them 18 times. We were on top for 12 out of 13 seasons from 1997-2010. The 2010s saw 8 consecutive seasons when Swansea have been above us. The longest stint Swansea have enjoyed above us is 10 seasons in the 1930s-1946/47.

  18. #18

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    I think if I had to broadly categorise both clubs I’d say the city are underachievers and the jacks overachievers. Historically, we’re probably about where we should be and they’re punching above their weight.

  19. #19

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
    I think if I had to broadly categorise both clubs I’d say the city are underachievers and the jacks overachievers. Historically, we’re probably about where we should be and they’re punching above their weight.
    Yes, I'd agree with that. If you're interested, as things currently stand in the league tables, we're 5 places above our average, Swansea are 23 places above their average.

  20. #20

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yes, I'd agree with that. If you're interested, as things currently stand in the league tables, we're 5 places above our average, Swansea are 23 places above their average.
    Thanks Eric! Love these tidbits.

    Broadening it out rivalry-wise, I’d probably categorise the wurzels as closer to us than the jacks on that spectrum of achievement. Although being a two club town disrupts that a little bit when I think of them compared to us.

  21. #21

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
    Thanks Eric! Love these tidbits.

    Broadening it out rivalry-wise, I’d probably categorise the wurzels as closer to us than the jacks on that spectrum of achievement. Although being a two club town disrupts that a little bit when I think of them compared to us.
    Beat me to it.

    Eric what's the score statistics wise between City and those carrot crunching, scrumpy sodden, straw chewing halfwits in Bristol?

  22. #22

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Beat me to it.

    Eric what's the score statistics wise between City and those carrot crunching, scrumpy sodden, straw chewing halfwits in Bristol?
    Their average position is 42nd, ours is 40th, the Jacks is 48th (revised from last week's post due to an inputting error).

    At this present moment in time, the cyder drynkers are 19 places higher than their overall average.

    We've been above them in the league 55 times, they've been above us 38 times. We've been in the same division 41 times.

    They've been 2 divisions above us 4 times, we've been 2 divisions above them 11 times.

    From 1971, they finished above us 26 times in 32 seasons up until that wonderous moment when we beat them in the playoffs. In 17 years since then, we've finished above them 16 times. The only time they finished above us during this period was in 2007/08 where they managed to blow an automatic promotion and playoff attempt within a few weeks.

    Here's one for you (and anyone else):

    Swansea are currently 23.5 places higher than their football league average. Which 5 sides have even higher positions than their league averages?

  23. #23

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Their average position is 42nd, ours is 40th, the Jacks is 48th (revised from last week's post due to an inputting error).

    At this present moment in time, the cyder drynkers are 19 places higher than their overall average.

    We've been above them in the league 55 times, they've been above us 38 times. We've been in the same division 41 times.

    They've been 2 divisions above us 4 times, we've been 2 divisions above them 11 times.

    From 1971, they finished above us 26 times in 32 seasons up until that wonderous moment when we beat them in the playoffs. In 17 years since then, we've finished above them 16 times. The only time they finished above us during this period was in 2007/08 where they managed to blow an automatic promotion and playoff attempt within a few weeks.

    Here's one for you (and anyone else):

    Swansea are currently 23.5 places higher than their football league average. Which 5 sides have even higher positions than their league averages?
    Eric, without checking I assume Accrington Stanley must be one and possibly Brighton too.

  24. #24

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Swansea are currently 23.5 places higher than their football league average. Which 5 sides have even higher positions than their league averages?
    Couldn’t hazard a guess with some of the more recent FL newbies and as someone has plumped for Brighton I’ll go for:

    Wycombe, Bournemouth, Reading, Watford, Peterborough?

  25. #25

    Re: A continuation of our overall league history post

    Quote Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead View Post
    Wigan's first game in the league was against Reading..away...only know that because a few of us were at Reading 78..The Jam..Sham..Quo..and a bunch of West Ham skinheads invited us to jump the turnstiles and steam into the ' northern ***** '...but we couldn't find them!..ended 0.0
    top invite

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