Pubs

[The Lone Gunman]

If people's homes are considered to be enclosed, often poorly ventilated areas where the virus is able to spread more easily, why are pubs, enclosed, often poorly ventilated areas themselves, seen as "Covid safe environments" as I've heard them called on many occasions? As someone who spends very little time in pubs these days, I look back to the days when I did and think they would be among the worst places you could go in if you were trying to avoid catching the virus - genuine question, what has been done to pubs to make them so much safer when it comes to the virus than they would have been in the past?

Vastly reduced capacities; plastic screens between tables; table service only; one-way systems; limits to the numbers of people who can use the toilets at any one time; no mixing between tables; no standing or casual walking around; masks to be worn when visiting the toilets.

[the other bob wilson]

Vastly reduced capacities; plastic screens between tables; table service only; one-way systems; limits to the numbers of people who can use the toilets at any one time; no mixing between tables; no standing or casual walking around; masks to be worn when visiting the toilets.

Thanks, that says to me they are safer than they were and precautions have been taken, but, when all's said and done, they are still the same enclosed, poorly ventilated environments and while they may be "Covid safer", I don't see that "Covid safe" can be justified - to be fair, that would be impossible.

It's a tough one for me this, because no one liked going to a pub more than me for most of my adult life, but I've found I don't miss them anywhere near as much as I thought I would - it seems to me what's needed here is clear, simple evidence on one side or the other to justify their viewpoint and, as the people changing the rules, the onus should be more on the Welsh Government to do so.

So far, I've not seen anything from either side to win me over to one side of the argument or the other.

[The Lone Gunman]

Thanks, that says to me they are safer than they were and precautions have been taken, but, when all's said and done, they are still the same enclosed, poorly ventilated environments and while they may be "Covid safer", I don't see that "Covid safe" can be justified - to be fair, that would be impossible.

You no doubt have a picture in your mind of how pubs used to be when they were packed to the rafters. Things couldn't be much more different these days.

What irritates me more than anything is that these businesses (and let's not forget we're talking about restaurants here too, not just pubs) have spent considerable sums of money in order to comply with government guidelines - money they could ill afford given the lengthy closures earlier in the year, the greatly reduced capacities and the other restrictions on their activities - and yet they get shut down again anyway.

To me, these latest restrictions appear to be totally over the top and I reckon Drakeford has made a complete fool of himself given his bold proclamations before, during and shortly after the firebreak lockdown.

[goats]

You no doubt have a picture in your mind of how pubs used to be when they were packed to the rafters. Things couldn't be much more different these days.

What irritates me more than anything is that these businesses (and let's not forget we're talking about restaurants here too, not just pubs) have spent considerable sums of money in order to comply with government guidelines - money they could ill afford given the lengthy closures earlier in the year, the greatly reduced capacities and the other restrictions on their activities - and yet they get shut down again anyway.

To me, these latest restrictions appear to be totally over the top and I reckon Drakeford has made a complete fool of himself given his bold proclamations before, during and shortly after the firebreak lockdown.

A bit desperate from Drakeford, the virus is airborne and can linger about indoors, I guess shutting the no essential shops right now wasn’t possible, or schools so something had to go. I’ve been to 3 pubs in the last few weeks, the Albany, the Crwys and the Heath, apart from the slight palaver of getting in (ID etc) they all felt very safe and spaced out. I’d go again no problem.

[goats]

To be honest, i don't really understand the detrimental effect the pub closures are having on people, although i do understand that some people need more social interaction than others, especially those who live on their own. i'd say that the two aren't mutually exclusive, there are other ways to socialise. I suppose that people need to adapt, it's not ideal, but if people care about each over then they'll find a way. I'm hardly a Hermit i just don't find most peoples company that stimulating, in fact i get bored very quickly and would much rather do something by myself. I do have people that i see from time to time, those people i like and respect.

Think you are a bit unique like that Tuerto, is it you that said you dont sit around much and will do work or DIY a lot? Unlike some I can’t recall who says what on here I’m a bit like you too, always got things I can get on with but as much as I get bored very quickly it’s good to catch up and hear other people’s opinions even if I don’t agree.....

[Croesy Blue]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...i-b904636.html

This says a third of all cases are spread through pubs and restaurants so you can see why they think it’s an option.

I sympathise with people who live on their own at the moment and their are definitely fewer options to socialise at the moment. And the impact this has on mental health is worrying.

But if there’s evidence that the virus does spread in pubs I understand why they’re making this decision.

[The Lone Gunman]

This says a third of all cases are spread through pubs and restaurants so you can see why they think it’s an option.

Firstly, that article was from the first week of October. Secondly, the data sample was very small. Thirdly, I think the truth is the 'experts' and the politicians don't know for sure how or where the virus is transmitting, hence the slapdash and ever-changing approach to the restrictions and the failure to bring the virus properly under control.

[goats]

Firstly, that article was from the first week of October. Secondly, the data sample was very small. Thirdly, I think the truth is the 'experts' and the politicians don't know for sure how or where the virus is transmitting, hence the slapdash and ever-changing approach to the restrictions and the failure to bring the virus properly under control.

Where’s the other 70% then?

[Harry Paget Flashman]

I think the truth is the 'experts' and the politicians don't know for sure how or where the virus is transmitting, hence the slapdash and ever-changing approach to the restrictions and the failure to bring the virus properly under control.

Would help if the test, track and trace system worked.

[olderblue]

When face masks were introduced across the rest of the UK, I'm sure it was the Health minister here saying they weren't required and WAG had taken the approach because the science was being followed?
That lasted about a month, before they introduced the compulsory wearing of face masks in public places ??????
Ive got to the stage now if one of them told me night followed day, I'd check outside

[xsnaggle]

Good of you to reply on Tuerto's behalf Eric!!

I didn't. I understand it and feel the same way, but we both know that wasn't the point of my post, don't we?

[xsnaggle]

Is it not true that pubs needed proof of address to ensure that mainly households meet up? Groups from a mixture of households were never allowed, not at the same table.

I believe only the person booking the table has to register and he/she is then relied on to id the other if it becomes necessary.

[xsnaggle]

Thanks, that says to me they are safer than they were and precautions have been taken, but, when all's said and done, they are still the same enclosed, poorly ventilated environments and while they may be "Covid safer", I don't see that "Covid safe" can be justified - to be fair, that would be impossible.

It's a tough one for me this, because no one liked going to a pub more than me for most of my adult life, but I've found I don't miss them anywhere near as much as I thought I would - it seems to me what's needed here is clear, simple evidence on one side or the other to justify their viewpoint and, as the people changing the rules, the onus should be more on the Welsh Government to do so.

So far, I've not seen anything from either side to win me over to one side of the argument or the other.

The may not be 100% safe, but then nowhere ever would be, the spread in highly segregated hospital areas demonstrates that.
The point is that these spaces do have some regulation whereas people front rooms where the non-pub parties occur have none at all. Add to that the socio-economic damage that it is doing, to no proven advantage and it appears vindictive at worst and lazy actions at best.
The only way to prove that pubs and restaurants are the cause is to close everywhere else and leave them open but of course that would never happen.

[2b2bdoo]

It is what it is, can't say I agree with it but I'm not going to kick up a fuss like its the end of the world for me, feel sorry for the businesses.

The problem is while some pubs/bars have been excellent some have not. That goes the same for the general public, I find it quite funny that those who have shouted loudest about this on my FB are the ones who seem to mostly ignore the rules or at least stretch them beyond what is acceptable.

For me the problem here is people, a lot of people seem to think they can bend a rule here and there, while some just don't care. People can't be trusted to follow basic rules. If people just limited interaction to a reasonable level and kept 2m I have no doubt we wouldn't be in this position.

[Hilts]

Ive been going to a pub once a week since it reopened in July. Ive actually gone to 2 but stopped going to 1 as it is in a busier area.

Ive only been out in the afternoon and felt its a calculated risk worth taking as the pub I go to is managing things really well.

However ive got numerous friends who have caught covid and a common feature are pubs in busier parts at night.

With the increased numbers in younger people to say in particular nightime hospitality isnt a significant part of the cause of the rise in cases isnt right. Its not just inside the pubs its outside spilling into the streets then going home and their families get it.

I do think hes gone too far though.

[LeningradCowboy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55142386

New rules for pubs are "insulting" and "a huge slap in the face" for the sector, said the boss of Wales' biggest brewers.

[lardy]

There's not one bit of scientific evidence that links 'lockdowns' with reductions in Covid cases.

Depressing that after nearly a year, disinformation like this is still spreading. And disinformation is putting it nicely.

Unfortunately it's only going to get worse when the vaccinea are released.

[Tuerto]

Examples?

Walking, exercise, having a chat on the doorstep, until recently, going for some food, or can you still do that? I understand that some people aren't capable of going for a walk or exercise because of disability etc, so it's not ideal, or particularly exciting. It's all we've got though, so maybe people with the ability to do those things should give it a try.

[Tuerto]

Think you are a bit unique like that Tuerto, is it you that said you dont sit around much and will do work or DIY a lot? Unlike some I can’t recall who says what on here I’m a bit like you too, always got things I can get on with but as much as I get bored very quickly it’s good to catch up and hear other people’s opinions even if I don’t agree.....

I do have to keep myself busy, believe me, it's better that I do! I don't really need a great deal of social interaction, if I do then it has to be purposeful. When I haven't got something to focus on, to that's when the problems start, so, in theory, it's like lockdown for me most days, because I get bored very quickly. I'm getting better as I mature, but up until I was 40, Woking 15 hour days was quite normal, and it wasn't really for the money, although that helped! I can't even go to the cinema as I get anxious about having to sit down for a couple of hours!

[The Lone Gunman]

Walking, exercise, having a chat on the doorstep, until recently, going for some food, or can you still do that? I understand that some people aren't capable of going for a walk or exercise because of disability etc, so it's not ideal, or particularly exciting. It's all we've got though, so maybe people with the ability to do those things should give it a try.

I work five days a week. My friend works all sorts of shifts (as a nurse in the Heath as it happens). I get home most evenings at somewhere between 5:00pm and 6:30pm. She has loads of family commitments. We were planning to have a few hours in the pub on Saturday night for the first time since February. That's not possible now. Therefore, we're trying to sort something out for one evening next week, but we can't go to our local pub or any of our local restaurants. They've all been closed down by the WAG. We can't meet in either of our houses. That's outlawed. So what do we do? Wander the streets in the cold and dark? Or just accept than doing anything remotely normal like meeting up a with a lifelong friend is considered out of bounds in Wales right now?

I guess we could meet up in Tesco or Asda and spend a few hours in the non-essential aisles.....

[Tuerto]

I work five days a week. My friend works all sorts of shifts (as a nurse in the Heath as it happens). I get home most evenings at somewhere between 5:00pm and 6:30pm. She has loads of family commitments. We were planning to have a few hours in the pub on Saturday night for the first time since February. That's not possible now. Therefore, we're trying to sort something out for one evening next week, but we can't go to our local pub or any of our local restaurants. They've all been closed down by the WAG. We can't meet in either of our houses. That's outlawed. So what do we do? Wander the streets in the cold and dark? Or just accept than doing anything remotely normal like meeting up a with a lifelong friend is considered out of bounds in Wales right now?

I guess we could meet up in Tesco or Asda and spend a few hours in the non-essential aisles.....

Go for a walk on a weekend morning, take some food or something, I'm not being facetious, I know that sounds a bit shit, maybe the wag have gone to far, I can't really come to a conclusion based on what individuals say to me. It's far from ideal but as it stands we've all got to fit in with this shit storm. We can either let it effect us or try something different. I suppose a lot of how people respond is down to character, need and circumstance. I know that it's been difficult for you.

[Cyclops]

I suppose a lot of how people respond is down to character, need and circumstance. I know that it's been difficult for you.

You could have added intelligence, ability to invoke a flexible/intuitive response, able to assimilate posts of others (yours above would be unintellible, I guess), nous, common sense and joie de vivre.

[goats]

Go for a walk on a weekend morning, take some food or something, I'm not being facetious, I know that sounds a bit shit, maybe the wag have gone to far, I can't really come to a conclusion based on what individuals say to me. It's far from ideal but as it stands we've all got to fit in with this shit storm. We can either let it effect us or try something different. I suppose a lot of how people respond is down to character, need and circumstance. I know that it's been difficult for you.

Maybe just book in a breakfast catch up.....

[Optimistic Nick]

But don't forget the Welsh government was elected by a majority. The UK government England a depressingly huge one. And don't forget Brexit.

Not really relevant but this is not true- 43% is not a majority.

Nobody can relly say with any certainty whether "most" people are sticking to the rules or not, but I strongly suspect that most people are. Yes there are idiots who don't believe in science and/or are just dickheads, but I think they get disproportionate attention.

[The Lone Gunman]

You could have added intelligence, ability to invoke a flexible/intuitive response, able to assimilate posts of others (yours above would be unintellible, I guess), nous, common sense and joie de vivre.

Unintellible?