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Yes I noticed his making that hoary old comment too. When the chips are down people revert to the lowest common denominator.Originally Posted by surge
That will keep the Welsh economy and jobs alive , so all those plans that English/Welsh exiles, students relatives arrange to come to Wales for Xmas will now go in reverse as they plan to go to England , along with the financial benefits those seasonal visitors bring to Wales, all predicated on forecasts of ]2,200 cases ( not deaths ) that is predicted from now until January
Would you care to expand on that observation?
Don't believe the hype.
Having worked throughout on various sites throughout Wales with boys, from Cardiiff Swansea, Newport ,all the valleys, Bristol and as far as Birmingham. 2 people we know have had it.
Old Covid will only attack you if you have a beer at 4pm, have a Lemonade and your fine. A weekend in Cardiff with a few numpties on the pee and it ruins it for the whole of Wales, how is that right ? It's not just a go at him because of the pubs, it's the whole mindset of Drakeford, he is right and everyone else is wrong
He will ruin everything for a virus that you have a 98% chance of surviving if you are unlucky enough to catch it. I'm not a non believer I know its out there, but so is the flu.
They are using it to cover up the woeful mess they have made of the NHS over the last 20 years, and the fact there wasn't enough capacity for the winter without all of this Covid added on top.
If Drakeford came around and had a $h1t on their doorstep some here, are so blinded, they will say it was the right decision and he had his reasons for it. Now that's Stupidity.
Don't ruin the snappy catchphrase that he copy pasted off the internet mun
Yes, it's often been said that people can be depended upon to do what is right and very little enforcement or regulation is needed.
I disagree: it has been shown time and time again that both in adversity and when opportunity presents itself, the majority resort to selfish behaviour with scant regard for the welfare of others.
Fair enough, but I have a question for you: have you been to a pub or restaurant at any time during the last six months? If so, what were your experiences of how people were behaving?
Yes I have, I've been to two pubs and I thought the way the social distancing was managed was impeccable, except for one occasion when a group of rowdy females objected to being told to obey the house rules. Several then proceeded to pick a fight with the bar staff and proudly display their contempt for the rules by harassing and breathing closely over other customers. The police were called and absolutely no blame could be attached to the pub management or staff.
I get your point and absolutely agree that in the main pubs and restaurants are being sensibly run in the circumstances and with more than adequate provision in place to prevent spread of the disease. I also agree with the opinion that it is better for people to be gathered in well managed venues rather than huddled together in one another's homes without supervision.
However, from a governing authority's viewpoint faced with a public health crisis some measures which are enforceable need to be taken to minimize the worsening of the problem. Governments cannot control what people do in their own homes but they can control the public sphere so it's the only option available. I'm afraid the weakest link in our fight against this disease is the selfishness of a reckless minority.
And here's the rub - Drakeford and Co desperately want to be seen to be doing something after their firebreak lockdown effectively failed, so they've taken the easy option of hammering the hospitality sector once more despite what I believe is almost certainly the flimsiest of evidence in relation to transmission rates.
I've been to pubs on three occasions and restaurants twice. The third pub visit was a couple of weeks ago when everyone was indoors. It was a midweek night and the pub was reasonably well populated, but everything felt so regimented that, for me at least, it spoiled the mood a bit. Still, it was good to be able to get together with a friend again.
As for the visits to the restaurants, they were genuinely the most comfortable I can remember. I'm not a big fan of restaurants as a rule as I don't like being surrounded by people while I'm eating, but those two evenings were great. The next tables to ours were a distance away on both occasions and the service felt 100% safe.
While I don't agree with it at all and I don't believe it is evidence-based, the pubs ban at least has some sort of justification, but stopping people going to restaurants seems extraordinarily petty - much like the non-essential aisles in supermarkets nonsense a few weeks ago. It feels like a restriction for the sake of it and nothing more.
The whole thing is obviously designed to stop people going out just for the hell of it.
I agree the firebreak was a failure. I predicted so at the time. It needed to have been longer. England has had 4 weeks of lockdown and there are still areas in the top tier of lockdown coming out of it.
I'm generally in favour of restrictions that help slow the virus, even if that impinges on our social lives. I can, however, see a trend where more and more people no longer care about restrictions that the governments will have to either relax things to avoid a public mutiny, or be even more draconian. Given a vaccine has been announced, the latter would have disastrous consequences.
But I would get banned in 100 pubs
And I would get banned in 500 more
Just to be the man who showed covid the door.
Might need to tweak the last line there!
For what it's worth I disagree with the Drakeford ruling this time. I've been to the pub tonight and will definitely miss it. The pub manager told me they may not open till the New Year even if Drakeford allows reopening before Christmas.
However, I can't imagine anyone getting everything right in these troubled times. If I were a politician I would likely be the most maligned person on the planet, even though my aim would be for the greatest good.
My opinion is that we should be strong enough to withstand all these petty inconveniences for the greater good. After all, it's only been 9 months since Covid reared its ugly head in the West. There's no harm in grumbling but solidarity is the key to winning this war, as indeed it is for anything that can be thrown at us.
If my calculations are correct, then so far in 2020 approximately 0.1% of the Welsh public has died within 28 days of a positive Covid-19 test, and we know full well that many of those people almost certainly didn't die as a result of the effects of the virus itself (although there are others who probably did die in such circumstances but who either weren't tested or whose deaths weren't properly recorded).
I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist or a Covid-19 denier, but I've reached the stage where I'm now absolutely convinced that the ongoing steps being taken to tackle the virus are excessive and disproportionate to the risk it poses for the vast majority of the population.
I agree entirely.
Add to that the point that of those 0.1% who unfortunately have died it is well known that the vast majority were either, already suffering from some underlying illness/complaint, or in a care home or a serving member of a NHS facility or over 80 years of age. (Or a combination of 2 or more of these things). If you remove these from the 0.1% i wonder what the figure would be.
So we know the people whom we really need to protect, and if much greater effort was put into protecting them and helping them then the rest could get on with their lives.
I am happy to be banned
A lot of pubs are full of bores slugging back booze talking cobblers
If you are sober , try talking to someone who has had four or five pints
They actually think they are talking sense
I would rather talk to a statue
Its not a lot to ask staying off the ale till the new year is it ?
I mean we have had this on and off since March
Between 1939 and 1945 this country was at war with the nazis . Cities were getting bombed , young men were dying in Europe.
And people are moaning they cannot go to the pub for a pint ?
Get a grip ff sake
Absolutely agree... the first lockdown had some credibility - at that stage we new little of this virus which seemed to have a devastating mortality rate. The aim was to flatten the curve and stop the hospitals being over-run so ventilators could be made. That’s all gone out the window; hospital beds are more vacant than would be expected for this time of year, yet millions are facing their lives and livelihoods being taken away.
The virus is much less deadly than first suggested, and the average age of those who’ve sadly died is over 90 and with at least one serious health issue.
I never thought that I would agree with Nigel Farage, but the government seem to have gone down a rabbit hole and the treatment is worse than the disease.
The average age of deaths is over 90? Is that true?
Sorry ... clumpy fingers, over 80! Editing it now!
My old dear was admitted to Princess of Wales Bridgend tonight , the paramedics who took her said the hospitals are packed , far from the more vacant line you seem to be suggesting
The first two too.Might need to tweak the last line there!
Other than that, it's a corker
Sorry to hear your news.
The ONS stats a week ago showed 79% occupancy across all beds in Wales - and this was 5-10% below previous years. Every year there are headlines that hospitals are packed and there aren’t enough beds. This may have been increased over recent days, and definitely local variances, but national lockdowns are baffling.
My brother has been an A&E doctor for12 years in Sterling, Scotland and there are more vacancies across his Trust hospitals than he has ever seen.
Thats very kind of you Mr Dale
Maybe its just cwm taf
But what about the risks it poses to the .1%? And the resources that it takes to help them and whatever the percentage of survivors is that require hospital care?
Also, I don't know where you got your figures from, but from the numbers I found, the death rate in the US of confirmed cases is 2% and worldwide it's 2.3%. Obviously, there are people who get the disease and never know about it or don't report it, but it can't be anything like 20 unreported cases to 1 reported one. Anyway, with the post-Thanksgiving bump we're supposed to get, followed by a post-Christmas one, followed by 2 months of mid-winter. Some doctors estimate that the US could see more than 500,000 Covid-19 deaths before a vaccine becomes widely available.
I know it can be costly, frustrating and painful. I've had family members pass away whose funerals I was unable to attend. Two family reunions canceled, a 96-year-old aunt (in-law) I may never see again. I'm sure everyone has a story. But to me, whatever it takes is worth it until enough people can get vaccinated so it's safe for everyone to get back to normal. Also, next winter, when everyone is coughing and spluttering on the coach I take into the city every day I'll be wearing a mask. I've thought about it in the past.
Explain how. Surely it's more unpopular to close businesses where transmission is rife like pubs.
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