Reply With QuoteSorry, but I don't think sports grounds should be opening yet for ANY number of fans.
I expect some virus surges in the next couple of weeks linked to those grounds in England that opened up.
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The folllowing is a joint open letter that has been sent to First Minister Mark Drakeford today by Cardiff City Football Club and associated elite Welsh sports clubs and bodies.
Dear First Minister,
We are writing as executives and senior representatives of rugby, cricket, horse racing and football – the elite stadium sports in Wales.
Sport is a fundamental part of life in Wales. It puts our nation on the global stage and provides communities across Wales with a sense of belonging and identity. We form part of an an industry that employs thousands of people across the country, our contribution to the Welsh economy, employment and well-being is significant, but this is now at risk.
We urge Welsh Government to reconsider its approach to the socially distanced return of fans to our sports grounds by embracing the current Sports Grounds Safety Authority (SGSA) guidance known as “SGO2” and withdraw the variant “SG02W” which has been requested by Welsh Government.
On Monday 30th November, an in-person and virtual meeting was held at Cardiff City Stadium to consider the socially distanced return of fans to our stadia. It was attended by Welsh Government and representatives from WRU, FAW, the Welsh regions, Glamorgan cricket, horse racing and Welsh professional football clubs as well as SGSA, EFL and SAG. The meeting noted the publication of the SGSA guidance known as SG02, which is generally based on a social distance of one metre plus mitigations. The SGO2 guidance was issued following extensive consultation, it has underpinned the detailed planning for the return of fans to English stadia from 2nd December, and indeed has been widely acclaimed and shared by the SGSA with countries around the world.
Taking a more cautious approach, the Welsh Government asked the SGSA to prepare a version of SG02 based on a social distance of two metres. A draft (SG02W) has been received and circulated, but not published. We as a group of national governing bodies and senior clubs urge that this draft be withdrawn and that the Welsh government also embrace the highly regarded SG02 version and subsequently allow test events to be run using this guidance with events taking place as soon as possible.
We say this because while SG02 reduces expected attendances to between 25% and 35% of capacity depending on concourse densities and stadium layouts. The Welsh version would further reduce capacity to under 10% a level which in effect closes our businesses to the public indefinitely.
At the meeting, all sporting organisations were extremely disappointed by the lack of prior consultation and the entrenched position adopted by Welsh Government officials during the meeting left us full of concern. The situation is grave; the lack of a clear roadmap for the return of spectators in Wales poses the real risk of bankruptcy for our sports.
We manage highly regulated stadia, which are overseen by the SGSA who issue our licenses and Safety certificates in conjunction with our respective Safety Advisory Groups (which includes local authority, building control and the emergency services). We respect the need to return when it is safe to do so and acknowledge the need to follow science, yet highlight the reluctance of Welsh Government to look at a “managed and engineered solution” not present in the retail, construction, transport or hospitality sectors. SG02W will be a significant roadblock that does not offer us a pragmatic or sustainable solution and believe in order to move forward it is essential to have a transparent and collaborative approach with Welsh Government combined with Public Health Wales. This will ensure as a collective, we are able to produce a clear roadmap for meaningful pilot test events and the safe return of fans to sporting grounds and events.
You will also be very conscious that Welsh sports fans are watching what is happening over the border. The clamour for the return of fans to supporting their clubs and national teams can only now continue to increase as the governing bodies and sports clubs suffer without direction or a viable road map in a time when their finances are crumbling before them.
For a nation that is small in size, Wales punches well above its weight in sporting terms; we want to work with Welsh Government to ensure the survival of our people, clubs, businesses and the future of sport in Wales.
So, as we stated at the beginning of this letter, we call on Welsh Government to withdraw SG02W and embrace the published SGSA guidance SG02, commit to transparency on the science and a collaborative approach between the sporting bodies, senior clubs, Public Health Wales and Welsh Government in order to provide a clear roadmap for meaningful pilot test events and the safe return of fans to sports grounds.
Steve Borley
Executive Director – Cardiff City Football Club
For and on behalf of:
Steve Phillips – CEO, WRU
Jonathan Ford – CEO, FAW
Hugh Morris – CEO, Glamorgan Cricket Club
Julian Winter – CEO, Swansea City FC
Gavin Foxhall – Director of Operations, Newport County
Mark Jones – Managing Director, Dragons Rugby
Richard Holland – CEO, Cardiff Blues
Philip Morgan – COO, Scarlets
Andrew Millward – Managing Director, Ospreys Rugby
Phil Bell – Executive Director, Chepstow and Ffos Las Racecourse
Jeannie Chantler – General Manager, Bangor on Dee Races
Mark Williams – Executive Director, Wrexham AFC
Todd Kelman – Managing Director, Cardiff Devils
Sorry, but I don't think sports grounds should be opening yet for ANY number of fans.
I expect some virus surges in the next couple of weeks linked to those grounds in England that opened up.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't the very large majority of the parks, ground and stadia used by the teams that have signed the letter in the equivalent of England's tier three? If that is the case, given the WAG's generally more cautious attitude towards Covid when compared to the UK Government, I see no chance of the position changing in Wales - if and when they move into a tier 2 equivalent, then the situation would change, I won't be going until I've had a vaccine, but I can't see why the same rules couldn't apply then as in England.
We had the highest number of positive cases in wales today since the lockdown began didn't we? surely not the time to be easing any restrictions
Over 2,000 new cases with a pretty big reduction in the number of tests compared to yesterday when there were 1,900 plus cases. Swansea, the highest, and Blaenau Gwent over 400 each and RCT very close to it, Cardiff at 350 plus as well - whatever good the Firebreak did has faded completely it appears.Originally Posted by Rjk
Dear Mr Drakeford ???????????
"If that is the case, given the WAG's generally more cautious attitude towards Covid when compared to the UK Government,.............."
I can't agree with that when the Welsh Government had a firebreak for a relatively short period then allowed a virtual free for all by allowing the opening of pubs and restaurants and ended up with probably the worst COVID figures in the UK. There's nothing cautious about that.
2000 in a 32,000 stadium. Face masks, no shouting etc. No thank you. I won't go back until it's 100% back to normal . Doesn't appeal to me at all..
Totally agree
Plus we would have to watch them play whilst we were SOBER
Wales is the one area in the uk with cases rising and have more people in hospital with covid than at any time since the pandemic began. Drakeford said last week that if we had a tier system we'd be a 3 anyway, so the chances of any fans being allowed in soon is virtually nil.
That's fine by me.
They went into their Firebreak at a time when the UK Government was saying there was no need for one and were more cautious throughout the spring and summer, they've started getting it wrong lately I agree, but for eight of the past nine months they've been the more cautious of the two Governments.
It will only get worse now as people socialise at home
Wales is the only part of the UK where cases are rising.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-55214924
So, well timed.
I don’t. Based on everything we’ve been told about the virus by the experts, the risk of transmission outdoors at a sports event is minimal provided social distancing protocols are followed.
One thing that doesn’t make any sense to me - why are the numbers or people allowed into stadiums in England based on the tier that the grounds are situated in as opposed to the capacities of the stadiums themselves? I appreciate the government is trying to make things as straightforward as possible, but it’s more than a little bit daft that the same number of people are allowed to go to Kenilworth Road as the Emirates.
Wouldn't it be based on what happens outside the stadium as opposed to inside?
Could be something to do with travelling to the game, behaviour outside the stadium etc, capacity on public transport etc whatever the reason (if any) it's a logistical nightmare that isn't going to please everyone.
The meeting noted the publication of the SGSA guidance known as SG02, which is generally based on a social distance of one metre plus mitigations. The SGO2 guidance was issued following extensive consultation, it has underpinned the detailed planning for the return of fans to English stadia from 2nd December, and indeed has been widely acclaimed and shared by the SGSA with countries around the world.The ‘one metre plus’ rule states that if you can’t maintain a two-metre distance from someone, you should stay at least one metre apart plus the use of mitigations such as wearing a face-covering or turning you face away from others. (https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/06/2...mean-new-rule/)We know that the closer you are to another person, the longer you stay there, the less ventilated the area, the more you project droplets out of your mouth (shouting/singing) the more risk there is in spreading any virus. Football grounds are typically well ventilated but there is a higher risk on the other markers of how the virus spreads and Watford FC did not mitigate this risk by enforcing mask wearing, though we can't say they didn't use other techniques. Photos of other grounds seem to have higher presence of mask wearing which would reduce risk much more.Confusingly we’re asked to don our masks by an amiable enough steward despite the club’s own Code of Behaviour suggesting this not being necessary in seats. I sit there feeling a bit awkward for five minutes in my mask, until it becomes evident that the vast majority around me are maskless and unchallenged and I slightly self-consciously de-mask, allowing my specs to demist again. (https://bhappy.wordpress.com/2020/12...-1-05-12-2020/)
I don’t know. Would it? Have you seen the papers on which these figures were based? I haven’t and I find the figures puzzling, especially as clubs currently seem to only be opening one stand. Wouldn’t what happens outside a stadium be dependent on the design and location of the stadium itself, and therefore different in each individual case?
I think it was vital to do it at the time, as cases were shooting up, but I think everyone was hoping that it would reduce it a lot more than it did.
I didn't notice much in the way of social distancing at the weekend matches. People were sitting together with no social distancing. Also some supporters were wearing masks correctly, some were wearing them around their chins and some over their mouths only and many had no masks at all.
At the Cardiff match on Saturday supporters were told by the club there was no need to wear a mask only to arrive inside the stadium to be told by stewards to put one on. That information was on the Watford forum.
I think it is inevitable there will be a virus surge in January.
While I have similar concerns about Watford's behaviour (from the limited information I have seen, but also assuming they added temperature checks) we'd also have to suggest that only a small number of people with the virus could have been in the ground so may not see any surge. It's also likely that only people from lower risk categories would have taken up tickets.
So do I. But that will be down to Christmas, not football matches.
Isn't it down to risk mitigation. 10,000 fans at the Emirates mean more fans at the tube. 3,000 fans at Kenilworth Road means more fans at a pub before and after. Yes, it would be different every single case, but I don't think things can be assessed that quickly, hence an arbitrary figure that may as well be plucked out of the air as anything else. I can see why there is a universal limit - it removes confusion, there are other outside factors to consider - I am not defending it, just providing an explanation for it.
Plus the effects of a few weeks of non-lockdown. Ventilation, social distancing and reducing time spent in an enclosed space are important over Christmas. Ventilation has always been important, but disregarded in the UK until the last few days.
There wasn't any social distancing in the queue outside the ground for the Brentford game which was shown on Quest. However, it's not as bad as some of the queues in shopping centres.
What the autumn has shown is if we lock down we get the virus under control but as soon as there is any loosening of the rules then some people treat it as a free for all rather than being sensible.
We can blame Welsh Government but at the end of the day people transmit the virus not policies.
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