The Von-Layen Tamer

[life on mars]

Now the deal has been agreed can someone tell me an actual benefit of brexit beyond meaningless buzzwords and catchphrases like sovereignty and taking back control?

As far as I can see we have been reduced to celebrating signing the first ever trade deal in history that makes it harder for us to trade.

I believe we can strike independent deals away from Europe , no one can predict where this will take us however we may know if its a success or failure in time for the Boris / Tory second term of governance and election in 2029.

[life on mars]

34 page summary of the deal within this link enjoy .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55443780

[Croesy Blue]

I suppose it depends if you think sovereignty is meaningless. Some people do, some people don't

Tell me what it means and how it’s different post brexit.

[Croesy Blue]

I believe we can strike independent deals away from Europe , no one can predict where this will take us however we may know if its a success or failure in time for the Boris / Tory second term of governance and election in 2029.

Who do the EU not have a good trade deal with that we could strike a better one with and why would they give the U.K. a better deal?

[Vindec]

Who do the EU not have a good trade deal with that we could strike a better one with and why would they give the U.K. a better deal?

You could just as well ask why does it take the EU so long to strike trade deals. It's a lot easier for the UK, as a single country, to complete a deal than it is for the requirements of 27 (or 28 if you include Wallonia) to be met.

[ryder bluebird]

He's gotten a deal. Everyone thought he could get 'a' deal - Teresa May was close to a deal. The question is if he got a good deal. Which remains to be seen.

As I remember, the deal that Boris rejected, and has now signed up to, is not as good as the one May originally negociated. But hey, it's now a triumph for Boris isn't it?

But let's not all call him Boris. Boris implies that he is one of your mates, someone you'd go out with a drink with and a curry afterwards. This is Boris Johnson, a ducker and diver and all round lazy bastard who can't even be bothered to master the briefs he is given. Or to keep his briefs up either.

It's been said that you get the govenment you deserve. Well if you feel you deserve this one, then I'm sorry for you.

On a lighter note - Bluebirds <0> ^0^ <0>

[lardy]

I suppose it depends if you think sovereignty is meaningless. Some people do, some people don't

What sovereignty has the UK lacked? We can't even use the borders one any more as France proved a few days ago that they are controlled by the country and not the EU.

[Whisperer]

'Your future dream is a shopping scheme'.
Must be nice that your dream scenario is another huge swathe of ashpalt across our beautiful country, still the economy must grow, captitalism and all that. I'd prefer to live in a small country, with a small economy and small population, cut our cloth accordingly etc. Still, each to their own.

No my dream is manufacturing - there's heaps of potential to tap into the green energy market but company's are not going to invest in places where the transport links are fecked.

[Whisperer]

A genuine question. Why did you spoil your ballot papers ? Is it just personal satisfaction or Is their some other motivation ? I ask as someone who has worked on Election counts of all sorts for many years and have always wondered what the expectation might be.

In the last election I really didn't feel there was anyone decent to vote for Boris or Corbin they ain't getting my vote easy. if everyone spoiled their vote and say there was 20,000 more spoilt votes than anyone else that would get some attention, but most people are like sheep they vote the same way as their parents and their grandparents because thats how we vote it's always been like that. Blah Blah Blah. It's important that you spoil your vote though, because that shows you got there and voted.

[xsnaggle]

Tell me what it means and how it’s different post brexit.

No. Another one who always s a question in a demanding manner as if they are some kind of authority. You clearly think sovereignty is meaningless, others may disagree with you. That is what I said and it is what it is.

[Croesy Blue]

No. Another one who always s a question in a demanding manner as if they are some kind of authority. You clearly think sovereignty is meaningless, others may disagree with you. That is what I said and it is what it is.

I don’t think it meaningless I just don’t the U.K. ever lacked it.

It was a very simple and polite question there’s no need to get defensive if you don’t want to or can’t answer it.

[Croesy Blue]

You could just as well ask why does it take the EU so long to strike trade deals. It's a lot easier for the UK, as a single country, to complete a deal than it is for the requirements of 27 (or 28 if you include Wallonia) to be met.

So who will we get a better trade deal now then?

Let’s be honest the brexit we have got isn’t the one anyone voted for and is the exact one people feared we would get. No real difference just hammered our economy for no visible gain. Our economy is 80% service sector and it gains nothing.

[xsnaggle]

What sovereignty has the UK lacked? We can't even use the borders one any more as France proved a few days ago that they are controlled by the country and not the EU.

But we can still use access to our own borders. You have to remember that when we were in the EU UK was one of the few nations that abided by all the rules. France historically has blatantly ignored or seen fit to alter the meaning of any that they didn't agree with or which weren't to their direct benefit. The common agricultural policy is a prime example, the EU has been trying to modernise it for years but the French keep vetoing it because the government is afraid of their farmers. So this union is not so united as they would wish you to believe.

[Croesy Blue]

How have France broken the rules regarding borders ever? The U.K. could have controlled its borders differently but never did.

[xsnaggle]

How have France broken the rules regarding borders ever? The U.K. could have controlled its borders differently but never did.

They have blocked ports or allowed their farmers to do so to stop movement of traffic between UK and the rest of europe in order to make the EU commission do what they wanted knowing that this action didn't only cause UK problems but the whole of the EU just to get their own way. Their fishermen have blockaded channel ports to achieve exactly the same thing. If a proposed EU action doesn't suit France they will break all the EU conventions to block it. They see and always have seen the EU as a means for France to protect its own business and bugger anyone else including the rest of the EU.
Now tell me all that was/is legitimate and lawful.

[Enoch Mort]

In the last election I really didn't feel there was anyone decent to vote for Boris or Corbin they ain't getting my vote easy. if everyone spoiled their vote and say there was 20,000 more spoilt votes than anyone else that would get some attention, but most people are like sheep they vote the same way as their parents and their grandparents because thats how we vote it's always been like that. Blah Blah Blah.

During the process of the count, after the total number of votes cast is verified and during the sorting into candidates the doubtful votes are removed and adjudicated on by the person running the count in the presence of the candidates and their agents. The ballot papers adjudged to be spoiled are kept separate and totalled up. The final calculation is total votes for each candidate plus spoiled papers should equal total verified number of votes cast. The reality is, once the spoiled ballot papers have been settled no-one takes a blind bit of notice of them. The totality of spoiled papers is returned in summary form together with the candidates votes to the central govt. department dealing with elections and, in my experience, no big deal is made of them there as they are too busy reviewing the running of the election and any logistical problems that may have occurred. There are categories of spoiled paper and there are some with obscenities or political protests written on them but the largest category of spoiled paper is absence of a mark I.e. completely blank. The one statistic that is taken notice of is the turn out and spoiled papers are included in that calculation so perhaps not turning out to vote is a better form of protest.

[xsnaggle]

During the process of the count, after the total number of votes cast is verified and during the sorting into candidates the doubtful votes are removed and adjudicated on by the person running the count in the presence of the candidates and their agents. The ballot papers adjudged to be spoiled are kept separate and totalled up. The final calculation is total votes for each candidate plus spoiled papers should equal total verified number of votes cast. The reality is, once the spoiled ballot papers have been settled no-one takes a blind bit of notice of them. The totality of spoiled papers is returned in summary form together with the candidates votes to the central govt. department dealing with elections and, in my experience, no big deal is made of them there as they are too busy reviewing the running of the election and any logistical problems that may have occurred. There are categories of spoiled paper and there are some with obscenities or political protests written on them but the largest category of spoiled paper is absence of a mark I.e. completely blank. The one statistic that is taken notice of is the turn out and spoiled papers are included in that calculation so perhaps not turning out to vote is a better form of protest.

But it doesn't alter the fact that if you don't vote then you have no right to complain about the outcome.

[Croesy Blue]

They have blocked ports or allowed their farmers to do so to stop movement of traffic between UK and the rest of europe in order to make the EU commission do what they wanted knowing that this action didn't only cause UK problems but the whole of the EU just to get their own way. Their fishermen have blockaded channel ports to achieve exactly the same thing. If a proposed EU action doesn't suit France they will break all the EU conventions to block it. They see and always have seen the EU as a means for France to protect its own business and bugger anyone else including the rest of the EU.
Now tell me all that was/is legitimate and lawful.

I thought when we were talking about immigration when people were talking about controlling their borders not French farmers going on strike. Again farming is a tiny % of our economy so how has brexit improved life for the common man?

[Vindec]

So who will we get a better trade deal now then?

No real difference just hammered our economy for no visible gain. Our economy is 80% service sector and it gains nothing.

There are no tariffs on the service sector internationally. Services are governed by the the WTO/GATS rules and do not form part of international trade agreements.

[xsnaggle]

I thought when we were talking about immigration when people were talking about controlling their borders not French farmers going on strike. Again farming is a tiny % of our economy so how has brexit improved life for the common man?

Asking questions again .you seem to be sure it has done the opposite so why don't you tell everyone how it hasn't
Personally I don't understand how you or anyone else can possibly know the overall long term affect of something that is less than 24 hours old .It is all bullshit and assumption
People come on here and state things as 'fact' when they are nothing of the sort, but merely opinion and conjecture.

[Croesy Blue]

We have to hope it does well in the long term but there are currently no obvious benefits. And our economy has been suffering because of it. So are you saying it’s worth ****ing over the country in the short term (which isn’t actually that short) to gamble on the long term.

It definitely isn’t bullshit and assumption, it’s factual and evident.

We’ve not signed any trade deals in the last year that are better than we’ve had.

So again I’ll ask can some give me a genuine benefit?

[xsnaggle]

We have to hope it does well in the long term but there are currently no obvious benefits. And our economy has been suffering because of it. So are you saying it’s worth ****ing over the country in the short term (which isn’t actually that short) to gamble on the long term.

It definitely isn’t bullshit and assumption, it’s factual and evident.

We’ve not signed any trade deals in the last year that are better than we’ve had.

So again I’ll ask can some give me a genuine benefit?

I don't believe the country has been ****ed over as you put it, again that is not a fact it's an opinion
nothing that hasn't happened yet can possibly be factual how ever many times you say it is.
The reason we haven't singed a trade deal better is because there isn't one. The one we just signed has an estimated annual worth of c660 billion a year but now the country is not a part of the EU it can sign other trade deals with other nations and build our economy without being dependent solely on EU trade deals. As I said elsewhere, it may take time but we can still end up better off in the long term. (I think it is worthy on note as to how important it was to the EU to get a deal too which is why something that with other countries takes many years to do was completed inside a year.)
As an aside I have an inkling that things will not be easy for the EU and the Euro in the short term for other reasons than brexit, and other countries are not happy about having to shoulder the burden of the net input to the union which they have lost.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

one day people , when we are long dead will say what the feck did those arseholes leave Europe for ?

I will be in hell , listening to sabbath and slayer and will look up and shout 🙌 dont blame me , it was the other idiots

We get shit when we vote for shit

[Veg1960]

I don't believe the country has been ****ed over as you put it, again that is not a fact it's an opinion
nothing that hasn't happened yet can possibly be factual how ever many times you say it is.
The reason we haven't singed a trade deal better is because there isn't one. The one we just signed has an estimated annual worth of c660 billion a year but now the country is not a part of the EU it can sign other trade deals with other nations and build our economy without being dependent solely on EU trade deals. As I said elsewhere, it may take time but we can still end up better off in the long term. (I think it is worthy on note as to how important it was to the EU to get a deal too which is why something that with other countries takes many years to do was completed inside a year.)
As an aside I have an inkling that things will not be easy for the EU and the Euro in the short term for other reasons than brexit, and other countries are not happy about having to shoulder the burden of the net input to the union which they have lost.

You say that nothing has happened yet, but Des was on earlier telling us about the loss of almost 1000 skilled Welsh jobs directly as a result of Brexit. Common sense would suggest that many UK elements of Pan - European manufacturing processes will be likely to follow over time. Only an opinion of course, but one based on the facts that are available at present.

[Whisperer]

one day people , when we are long dead will say what the feck did those arseholes leave Europe for ?

I will be in hell , listening to sabbath and slayer and will look up and shout �� dont blame me , it was the other idiots

We get shit when we vote for shit

Funny you should say that sludge because I was thinking what my parents who are long gone would be saying....they didn't want in back then.