The Von-Layen Tamer

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

As I said some people were determined even hopeful that it would be a 'car crash' as you put it, just so they could shout about how we should not have left, but I don't think they can do that with any degree of honesty, not that that will stop them doing it.

Bullshit and assumption, you say?

[life on mars]

Who do the EU not have a good trade deal with that we could strike a better one with and why would they give the U.K. a better deal?

Well say we can strike struck quicker deals with say Canada in a few months unlike the ridiculous EU Canadian 7 year negotiations , perhaps some benefit within that type of instance as it requires a 27 state agreement against a single negotiation ie just the UK andva single we can perhaps forge niche type deals?

We maybe also be able to tap into the Trans-Pacific Partnership group and Asian groups as well access to Europepean markets and have the best of both worlds, it will all depend on our worth to those countries and I guess our service industry, medicine , security expertise are something others are keen to tap into and be apart of ??

Think we need to now look forward and be positive whatever side you were on with Brexit .

[light up the darkness]

You've all lost. Especially if you live in Wales.

Wales will get less from central government than it was getting before and it doesn’t matter a toss how much the fkrs down the Bay complain how unfair it all is.

[xsnaggle]

You say that nothing has happened yet, but Des was on earlier telling us about the loss of almost 1000 skilled Welsh jobs directly as a result of Brexit. Common sense would suggest that many UK elements of Pan - European manufacturing processes will be likely to follow over time. Only an opinion of course, but one based on the facts that are available at present.

Which 1000 jobs were they? I haven't seen anything about that. I honestly don't know.

[xsnaggle]

Wales will get less from central government than it was getting before and it doesn’t matter a toss how much the fkrs down the Bay complain how unfair it all is.

you think. You cannot possibly know this because it hasn't happened yet.

[Veg1960]

Which 1000 jobs were they? I haven't seen anything about that. I honestly don't know.

Quote from Des earlier in this thread. To be fair, 450 in Wales approx 900 in total.

"And there you have it. As I'm now living in Poland and in the course of moving 450 jobs out of the UK (plus roughly the same supply chain jobs). I'm seeing the consequences first hand. Our EU contracts state must be made within the EU, our UK contracts have no reciprocal clause. Southern Germany wins again and our suppliers across England & Wales just lost jobs a s a result."

[Vindec]

Quote from Des earlier in this thread. To be fair, 450 in Wales approx 900 in total.

"And there you have it. As I'm now living in Poland and in the course of moving 450 jobs out of the UK (plus roughly the same supply chain jobs). I'm seeing the consequences first hand. Our EU contracts state must be made within the EU, our UK contracts have no reciprocal clause. Southern Germany wins again and our suppliers across England & Wales just lost jobs a s a result."

I'm more neutral on this than many posters but wouldn't the UK now be able to let contracts to UK companies rather than be required to invite tenders for contracts from firms within the EU?

[Croesy Blue]

you think. You cannot possibly know this because it hasn't happened yet.

You could look throughout all of history and see how a Tory government has treated wales.

Even if you voted for brexit this shambles can’t be what anyone voted for.

We’ve had a whole year to sign trade deals and we haven’t managed to sign anything more than what we already had plus we’ve signed a much worse one with our biggest trading partner.

I know this is controversial on here but people were tricked into voting for brexit by people promising things who weren’t even in a position to deliver it who promptly ****ed off as soon as the vote was done.

People were duped and the country is already significantly weaker for it.

Jobs have already been lost, companies have already left the country, students have lost the Erasmus. There have been 0 positives beyond meaningless catch phrases.

[Croesy Blue]

I'm more neutral on this than many posters but wouldn't the UK now be able to let contracts to UK companies rather than be required to invite tenders for contracts from firms within the EU?

They could already do that, I sort out contracts for a U.K. company and we only tender to British companies.

[Croesy Blue]

You say that nothing has happened yet, but Des was on earlier telling us about the loss of almost 1000 skilled Welsh jobs directly as a result of Brexit. Common sense would suggest that many UK elements of Pan - European manufacturing processes will be likely to follow over time. Only an opinion of course, but one based on the facts that are available at present.

Haven’t a load of car manufacturers left too, saying nothing has happened yet isn’t correct at all.

[Croesy Blue]

Asking questions again .you seem to be sure it has done the opposite so why don't you tell everyone how it hasn't
Personally I don't understand how you or anyone else can possibly know the overall long term affect of something that is less than 24 hours old .It is all bullshit and assumption
People come on here and state things as 'fact' when they are nothing of the sort, but merely opinion and conjecture.

It’s a genuine question, how has it improved life for the common man?

Wales is going to be poorer, the valleys are going to be completely ****ed by this.

[Whisperer]

During the process of the count, after the total number of votes cast is verified and during the sorting into candidates the doubtful votes are removed and adjudicated on by the person running the count in the presence of the candidates and their agents. The ballot papers adjudged to be spoiled are kept separate and totalled up. The final calculation is total votes for each candidate plus spoiled papers should equal total verified number of votes cast. The reality is, once the spoiled ballot papers have been settled no-one takes a blind bit of notice of them. The totality of spoiled papers is returned in summary form together with the candidates votes to the central govt. department dealing with elections and, in my experience, no big deal is made of them there as they are too busy reviewing the running of the election and any logistical problems that may have occurred. There are categories of spoiled paper and there are some with obscenities or political protests written on them but the largest category of spoiled paper is absence of a mark I.e. completely blank. The one statistic that is taken notice of is the turn out and spoiled papers are included in that calculation so perhaps not turning out to vote is a better form of protest.

Yeah of course I get that, a handful of spoilt votes no ones gonna bat an eyelid, but if everyone who was dissatisfied spoilt their paper 50,000 60.000, 100,000 then I bet you a pinch to a pound of salt they would pay attention.

[xsnaggle]

It’s a genuine question, how has it improved life for the common man?

Wales is going to be poorer, the valleys are going to be completely ****ed by this.

It is not a genuine question and you know it is not. You are asking how something has improved life for the common man (what ever you mean by that phrase) which only happened yesterday so it has no chance yet of helping or hurting anyone.
Despite all the comments about 4 1/2 years most of that delay was caused by people who would not accept the will of the people. Until next friday materially nothing has changed so the question is spurious, and as I say, you know it is.

And again you state an opinion as if it were fact. You think the valleys will be fecked, but you cannot possibly know that for a fact for the same reason I just stated.
Let me ask you a question. Don't you think the valleys are already fecked inside the EU and if not in what way do you know (notice the word know, not think) that they will be fecked now.

[Eric Cartman]

It is not a genuine question and you know it is not. You are asking how something has improved life for the common man (what ever you mean by that phrase) which only happened yesterday so it has no chance yet of helping or hurting anyone.
Despite all the comments about 4 1/2 years most of that delay was caused by people who would not accept the will of the people. Until next friday materially nothing has changed so the question is spurious, and as I say, you know it is.

And again you state an opinion as if it were fact. You think the valleys will be fecked, but you cannot possibly know that for a fact for the same reason I just stated.
Let me ask you a question. Don't you think the valleys are already fecked inside the EU and if not in what way do you know (notice the word know, not think) that they will be fecked now.

You understand that there has been a measurable cost already right? I am struggling to think of a potential tangible economic benefit of it and it speaks volumes that one of the most prominent brexiteers on this board, life on mars, still believes the the EU functions as a sort of cash and carry, buying things of countries around the world for us to buy off them at an inflated rate.

[Vindec]

They could already do that, I sort out contracts for a U.K. company and we only tender to British companies.

EU rules applied to all public contracts as follows:

The main limits are:

EUR 139 000 for most types of services and supplies purchased by central government authorities
EUR 5 350 000 for construction contracts

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The valleys and South Wales in general have benefitted from European investment as quite simply the south Wales valleys have pockets of deprivation as high as anywhere else in Europe.

Attracting industry and jobs to the valleys after the collapse of coal and steel was vital and much of it was done through e u grants . The main valley towns of pontypridd , merthyr , aberdare have had investment but it is the poorer areas of these towns and the isolated areas such as the upper Bridgend Valley villages that are and always will be in need of support . People living in our very poor communities not only struggle to get buses or trains , they struggle to find work and have community facilities that most of us take for granted and chronic ill health is a serious problem .

European funding has been vital in providing economic and social aid to deprived communities across Europe. I shudder to think what life would be for some people without support in some areas of the South Wales valleys .

The tory party , apart from the more enlightened ones like Ken Clarke have always had a problem as they see it as a socio Liberal organisation which goes against their dog eat dog ideology . Thatcher would love to have pulled out of Europe and so would have all her little puppies.

What farage and his mob did was Stoke the fire of xenophobia .......let's not piss about here .......and managed to persuade lots of people whose jobs were dependent on eu investment that they would be better off letting the right wing economic policies of the anti eu brigade look after them

They have my deepest sympathies as most economic analysts think they are going to be even more isolated than ever

But the nation has spoken , get on with it , just don't cry if it all goes tits up

[delmbox]

I'm glad that a deal's been struck, although it was never really likely that it wouldn't, too much at stake for both sides.

This infographic is pretty simplistic but it's a good at a glance glimpse at some key elements of the deal. Sums up why I think Brexit's a terrible idea - no matter what the deal that's been negotiated is, it's not as good as the one we had before.

A world class case of shooting ourselves in the foot, and for what? To gain back control? We always had control, we didn't even use the same currency as the rest of Europe, was that their decision? France amongst other countries just decided to close their borders to us, was that the rest of the EU's decision or was it made unilaterally by the countries themselves?

Honestly I think it's a huge mistake and it's incredibly frustrating but it's done so we just have to deal with it. I'm just glad I'm not a leave voting father of a kid to whom I'll have to explain why I voted away their right to freely live, work and study in 27 countries right on their doorstep

1.jpg

2.jpg

Link here in case those photos come out small https://twitter.com/F1cyclist/status...053892612?s=20

[Eric the Half a Bee]

No that's a fact more than an answer Eric

But it doesn't say how the Conservatives would benefit Wales. That's important.

I don't buy the line of voting for anyone other than the Tories, or anyone other than Labour, or anyone other than x. An example of an exchange I had on social media once went something like:

x: Drakeford is a prick. Can't wait to vote him out
me: Who are you going to vote for and what do they stand for and what do they promise?
x: Don't care.
me: Really?
x: Yes, just want to get rid of the prick.
me: So you don't know who you are going to vote for, just as long as it gets rid of Drakeford. You could end up voting in much worse.
x: No chance.
me: So without researching who the alternatives are, without knowing who stands for what, without working out which party or candidates align most with your political beliefs, you would happily vote in anyone, just to get rid of Drakeford, regardless of how good or bad it could turn out.
x: Yes.

At this point, I start banging my head against the wall, repeatedly. It shows a total density of some of the electorate.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

But it doesn't say how the Conservatives would benefit Wales. That's important.

I don't buy the line of voting for anyone other than the Tories, or anyone other than Labour, or anyone other than x. An example of an exchange I had on social media once went something like:

x: Drakeford is a prick. Can't wait to vote him out
me: Who are you going to vote for and what do they stand for and what do they promise?
x: Don't care.
me: Really?
x: Yes, just want to get rid of the prick.
me: So you don't know who you are going to vote for, just as long as it gets rid of Drakeford. You could end up voting in much worse.
x: No chance.
me: So without researching who the alternatives are, without knowing who stands for what, without working out which party or candidates align most with your political beliefs, you would happily vote in anyone, just to get rid of Drakeford, regardless of how good or bad it could turn out.
x: Yes.

At this point, I start banging my head against the wall, repeatedly. It shows a total density of some of the electorate.

Shows what an utter arsehole corbyn and his front bench team were for him not to run that craphouse Boris even close

The Fecker will get in again too , the public are stupid basically

[the other bob wilson]

I thought when we were talking about immigration when people were talking about controlling their borders not French farmers going on strike. Again farming is a tiny % of our economy so how has brexit improved life for the common man?

On the subject of immigration, before the 2016 vote it seemed to me that, if one subject dominated, it was immigration, but, once the vote had been won, it almost seemed as if immigration had served its purpose and was placed on the back burner.

[Talksport]

You could look throughout all of history and see how a Tory government has treated wales.

Even if you voted for brexit this shambles can’t be what anyone voted for.

We’ve had a whole year to sign trade deals and we haven’t managed to sign anything more than what we already had plus we’ve signed a much worse one with our biggest trading partner.

I know this is controversial on here but people were tricked into voting for brexit by people promising things who weren’t even in a position to deliver it who promptly ****ed off as soon as the vote was done.

People were duped and the country is already significantly weaker for it.

Jobs have already been lost, companies have already left the country, students have lost the Erasmus. There have been 0 positives beyond meaningless catch phrases.

Typical remoaner telling us Brexiteers that we were conned into voting for it. Get a life sunshine, we knew what we wanted, and we've eventually got it. Would have been done quicker if our best PM ever was still around, our Maggie 😁.
Democracy has prevailed, Boris has delivered what the people voted for.
Finally, let's vote next year to scrap Welsh Parliament, you know it makes sense 😉🍺🥂🎉🎇

[Talksport]

But it doesn't say how the Conservatives would benefit Wales. That's important.

I don't buy the line of voting for anyone other than the Tories, or anyone other than Labour, or anyone other than x. An example of an exchange I had on social media once went something like:

x: Drakeford is a prick. Can't wait to vote him out
me: Who are you going to vote for and what do they stand for and what do they promise?
x: Don't care.
me: Really?
x: Yes, just want to get rid of the prick.
me: So you don't know who you are going to vote for, just as long as it gets rid of Drakeford. You could end up voting in much worse.
x: No chance.
me: So without researching who the alternatives are, without knowing who stands for what, without working out which party or candidates align most with your political beliefs, you would happily vote in anyone, just to get rid of Drakeford, regardless of how good or bad it could turn out.
x: Yes.

At this point, I start banging my head against the wall, repeatedly. It shows a total density of some of the electorate.

Easy answer to your question Eric, is vote to scrap WP. Let's be run from Westminster, whoever is in Govt.
Like all your stats btw 👍

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Typical remoaner telling us Brexiteers that we were conned into voting for it. Get a life sunshine, we knew what we wanted, and we've eventually got it. Would have been done quicker if our best PM ever was still around, our Maggie ��.
Democracy has prevailed, Boris has delivered what the people voted for.
Finally, let's vote next year to scrap Welsh Parliament, you know it makes sense ����������

I still haven't heard anyone come up with a solid reason for leaving the EU.

[The Bloop]

I still haven't heard anyone come up with a solid reason for leaving the EU.

Isnt it because we wanted to buy a pint of beer instead of half a litre?

[Welshcake.]

I still haven't heard anyone come up with a solid reason for leaving the EU.

There isn't one