Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by xsnaggle
So what can an independent UK offer for better trade deals, than we had under the EU, than the EU offer?
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So how is Brexit and a right wing government going to improve the valleys?
So what can an independent UK offer for better trade deals, than we had under the EU, than the EU offer?
You're an Abercanaid boy, do you think the Tories looked after the area before going the EU?
Genuine question.
Who is the 'we' in that statement?
'We' as in 'friends of Boris Johnson', and 'we' as in advocates of low wage - low regulation - tax avoiding businesses, and 'we' as in fantasists who welcome marginalisation and WTO tariff regimes, and 'we' as in Little Englanders?
I'm sure some people will make a mint out of post-Brexit trade deals, but on balance I doubt Joe and Jane Public will be amongst them.
And 'independent country'? In the world of 21st century globalism, institutional and treaty interdependence and big tech, even the idea of sovereign nation independence is a fairy tale.
Hopefully this is close to the least bad trade deal that the UK government could achieve - but from all the reports that sounds very unlikely.
No they certainly haven’t helped but now is a good time for Drakeford and co to renegotiate the Barnet formula.
but all the reports are from people who haven't seen it, just as you or I haven't. The 'we' I referred to was the people of the UK generally, ?i wasn't being party political which you clearly are. Whatever the deal you will slag it off either because you voted remain or because it was negotiated by the conservative government, or given your normal-line statements probably both.
Leaving the EU was voted for by the people. Live with it.
Taking control and over riding Drakeford and co with a M4 relief road for starters and trying to encourage some investment into Wales.
Well a left wing government hasn't done that much for them in the last 20 odd years work-wise.
That's not an answer, though.
How much investment has Westminster encouraged into Wales?
Has either main party looked after the valley's?
I would say no, but I know which party would be worse for them, which is a sad indictment of Welsh politics.
Very decent question.
One looks at the valleys with disdain, the other with a god given right.
Actually, thinking about it both if the major parties are guilty of both.
Do you think hes capable?
Do you think that would actually be on the table?
We'll get ****ed. All that EU money which paid for infrastructure improvements wont be landing in Wales if entirely up to any UK Tory government.
Not sure we'd do any better under Starmer if I'm honest.
No that's a fact more than an answer Eric
The details that matter are known, though. That you think anything of significance was going to come out of the negotiations this week belies your failure to grasp what was at stake here. No passporting; no protection of the service industry; and a nightmare for anyone who moves stuff across the border. And that was always going to be the case under this type of exit. Everything else - Erasmus; fishing rights etc - just gets lost in the rounding. At a national level, it does not matter. We've gifted financial services to the EU and got nothing back. Tariff free is all well and good but the ones who will be smiling most live in Southern Germany.
"Maybe they should have been the negotiators". You cannot negotiate anything from that position: you vote for a losing outcome and then fight as hard as you can to mitigate the disaster. That is it. They are not saying that they could do a better job: they are saying that the job was a hospital pass from the off.
It was always, always going to be a car crash. European leaders have every political motivation to force Brexit to be a failure, and that is what they have done and what they were always going to do. Macron was up against Le Pen in 2017 and will be again in 2022. He will want to ridicule the notion of leaving the EU: he cannot afford for Brexit to be anything other than an abject failure. He needs the UK to be worse off for his own political needs (and to minimise the chances of his own country following suit, in line with his own beliefs). Most of them won't want to see their own countries going through this sort of turmoil and the best way to achieve that is to make an example of the UK and punish it for leaving. It's that simple, it always has been. The same is obviously true of the EU institutions.
It shouldn't be that way, and if everyone was trying to work out what the best answer for both economies then we wouldn't end up here, but it was never going to be driven by that - it was always going to be far more political.
Im pretty sure wed be a lot better off under Starmer than the incompetent bufoon some on here voted in.😂
hilts agree a buffoon the worse PM in my lifetime but didn't its own party vote him in after Mays attempt failed in the brexit talks ?
don't think the public had a say
Thats the focus, positiveness.
And there you have it. As I'm now living in Poland and in the course of moving 450 jobs out of the UK (plus roughly the same supply chain jobs). I'm seeing the consequences first hand. Our EU contracts state must be made within the EU, our UK contracts have no reciprocal clause. Southern Germany wins again and our suppliers across England & Wales just lost jobs a s a result.
You're as guilty as those who make you smile though really aren't you, because you're looking at the situation as someone who consistently takes a certain political line and is sticking to it when it comes to the situation regarding Brexit - you make all sorts of judgements on those who feel differently to you, rightly pointing out that they are jumping to conclusions regarding a document that few will have read, but then you're doing the same from the other side aren't you.
All I'll see on the matter in this thread is that the name given to it is typical of a way of thinking which runs central to many leave voters views on Europe - Brexit is the war with Johnny Foreigner that they haven't lived through.
Free trade deal signed seemingly without having to give up everything. There's always compromise and I'm sure both sides climbed down on things at the last minute. Don't think we really needed 4 years mind, as with most deadlines, things magically get sorted at the last minute.
Think in the long run we will do fine.
Least there isn't going to be people starving outside Tesco as they couldn't get some French cheese anyway.
At the time the "buffoon" was the least worst option. Under a different Labour leader the election result may well have been different. But we are where we are so the public will have to get used to it.
Good post That is exactly the point. I'm going to find out about the deal before I rush to judgement.
As long as separate nations are separate nations it will always be that way. You personally may wish that there weren't nations but there are and we have to live with it. That is what this is all about 'living with it'.
I disagree that it's a car crash for us any more than it is for the Eu, and I hope and believe that we will benefit in the long run although it is generally accepted that initially our economy will take a hit. That has always been known.
I don't fail to grasp anything and it is very presumptuous of you to think that I do and that you are more intelligent than I. you merely have a different perception of things. Macron is an arse, and nothing will help him. He hasn't got what he demanded for his fishermen and they know it, and if he veto's the agreement so many others will suffer that he will be destroyed. But we mainly got what the government promised, though we were never going to get everything, that is the nature of negotiations.
As I said some people were determined even hopeful that it would be a 'car crash' as you put it, just so they could shout about how we should not have left, but I don't think they can do that with any degree of honesty, not that that will stop them doing it.
We have left and boris johnson won an election on the promise to get it over and done with. He had delivered that promise, where others, the EU included were always wanting to extend the transition for years in the hope that people would weary of it and not leave. Ask yourself why the EU didn't want the UK to leave.
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