FT: CARDIFF CITY 2 - 3 BRENTFORD. Match thread

[blue lewj]

Another hang up in all of this for me is the stage of their City stints Warnock and Harris are at.

They had very similar seasons with regards to points per game but Warnock was going to stay until the end of that season. Two would be optimistic. Harris is achieving this level of result while being touted as the man to rebuild the team and squad.

[City123]

Warnock's side won 21 points from 16 games before being sacked. Harris's side won 23 from the first 16 this season.

Warnock's side averaged 1.31 before getting the boot. This season we've won 1.38. It should be pointed out that Harris's side won 1.73 from the moment he was appointed until the playoff semi finals.

Those points per game stats overlook the shocking performances. However bad you may think we've been under Harris (and I don't think we've been particularly brilliant either), we were BAD under Warnock, particularly away from home. I was at a lot of those aways and the scorelines flattered us against Reading, Wigan and West Brom.

Of our 5 wins, we only won 2 of those games by more than a goal, QPR and Birmingham, the first of which was a truly bizarre win and the second required 2 penalties. The other three wins were all by a goal. An own goal against Middlesbrough, a 96th minute winner against Luton and an 88th minute winner against Huddersfield. This was all after spending £13m on top of the £40m Warnock had already spent in transfer fees which has hamstrung the club and the current manager. I don't think we've been amazing, but its certainly not as bad as it was under Warnock

[City123]

Another hang up in all of this for me is the stage of their City stints Warnock and Harris are at.

They had very similar seasons with regards to points per game but Warnock was going to stay until the end of that season. Two would be optimistic. Harris is achieving this level of result while being touted as the man to rebuild the team and squad.

Surely that's a good thing? The man who's rebuilding is at the level of the short termist who's mess he's having to clear up?

[Don Corleone]

. I don't think we've been amazing, but its certainly not as bad as it was under Warnock

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/...n-top-19522445

If you look at the comments on Facebook the Middlesbrough fans love Warnock and all are saying they wish he’d been appointed sooner over the useless Karanka and other comments saying they always disliked him when he managed other clubs but now love him now he’s their manager- sounds familiar eh!

[blue lewj]

Surely that's a good thing? The man who's rebuilding is at the level of the short termist who's mess he's having to clear up?

In usual circumstances I would be agreeing but have little faith in him being able to build a team or vary the way that he plays.

If he brings in better quality but persists in setting City up as a long ball, set piece winning team then I can't see us really kicking on. The end of the Warnock era was met by many with hope that we would play some more football. That is probably in large part why I was underwhelmed by the Harris appointment but this season the results aren't that much better than the Warnock bad season either.

In short I don't think even if Harris was given another two or three seasons here he would reach the heights of the so called 'short termist' in Warnock and his promotion.

My main reason for thinking that is the fact he played very little by way of football at Millwall, least of all at the end. I can't see how he is going to change that philosophy after 5 years in management and showing no signs of doing so.

[surge]

.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Those points per game stats overlook the shocking performances. However bad you may think we've been under Harris (and I don't think we've been particularly brilliant either), we were BAD under Warnock, particularly away from home. I was at a lot of those aways and the scorelines flattered us against Reading, Wigan and West Brom.

Of our 5 wins, we only won 2 of those games by more than a goal, QPR and Birmingham, the first of which was a truly bizarre win and the second required 2 penalties. The other three wins were all by a goal. An own goal against Middlesbrough, a 96th minute winner against Luton and an 88th minute winner against Huddersfield. This was all after spending £13m on top of the £40m Warnock had already spent in transfer fees which has hamstrung the club and the current manager. I don't think we've been amazing, but its certainly not as bad as it was under Warnock

Yes.

[bobh]

Vaulks from 60 yards!!!

Madness Vaulksy!

What a goal

Same blade of grass

And on SSN... it was Beckham-esque

FFS premier league bias continues.

Much more like Hudson's , but that was "only in the Chamionship, so we won't count that".
Bastards

[The Lone Gunman]

And on SSN... it was Beckham-esque

FFS premier league bias continues.

Much more like Hudson's , but that was "only in the Chamionship, so we won't count that".
Bastards

Quite extraordinary.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Yes.

No one is doubting that the end of Warnock’s reign was poor but equally you could make a similar comparison with some (most!) of our recent wins e.g. at Stoke where we were appalling and yet got away with a win due to a missed penalty, their best player going off and 2 comical pieces of Stoke defending, late winner (ANOTHER Morrison header) against Birmingham etc

There is no question that the football this season has been nothing less than appalling to watch and the underlying trend so obviously downwards. Everyone analyses football today and so it is blatantly clear to anyone who cares to look. On the other hand, if you want to ignore the data and underlying trends, then do so at your peril.

All you have to do is watch Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth or any other passing team (and the argument that they have loads of money and somehow Warnock is still to blame having wasted all of ours doesn’t hold up if you consider the JBs and Brentford I’m afraid)

[Rjk]

2020-12-26-cardiff-brentford.jpg

there's that second gear of Brentford's in graphical form

[Tuerto]

In usual circumstances I would be agreeing but have little faith in him being able to build a team or vary the way that he plays.

If he brings in better quality but persists in setting City up as a long ball, set piece winning team then I can't see us really kicking on. The end of the Warnock era was met by many with hope that we would play some more football. That is probably in large part why I was underwhelmed by the Harris appointment but this season the results aren't that much better than the Warnock bad season either.

In short I don't think even if Harris was given another two or three seasons here he would reach the heights of the so called 'short termist' in Warnock and his promotion.

My main reason for thinking that is the fact he played very little by way of football at Millwall, least of all at the end. I can't see how he is going to change that philosophy after 5 years in management and showing no signs of doing so.

Completely agree. I can't see Harris changing what we have now in terms of style, philosophy. If he was against the 'Grenade' style of football we play at times, then he wouldn't do it. Football is like Politics with coaches, they have a way of thinking and it's very difficult to deviate away from that. Fans have noticed small changes, a bit of possession, maybe three passes before it goes long. Fullbacks a little higher. This could be seen as progressive, but lets face it, teams were playing like this during the eighties. Harris has also replaced one of the most direct, non footballing managers known to man, in Warnock. In political terms it's a bit like replacing Boris with David Cameron, slightly more to the centre, although the message is pretty much the same.

[Michael Morris]

[City123]

No one is doubting that the end of Warnock’s reign was poor but equally you could make a similar comparison with some (most!) of our recent wins e.g. at Stoke where we were appalling and yet got away with a win due to a missed penalty, their best player going off and 2 comical pieces of Stoke defending, late winner (ANOTHER Morrison header) against Birmingham etc

There is no question that the football this season has been nothing less than appalling to watch and the underlying trend so obviously downwards. Everyone analyses football today and so it is blatantly clear to anyone who cares to look. On the other hand, if you want to ignore the data and underlying trends, then do so at your peril.

All you have to do is watch Brentford, Swansea, Norwich, Bournemouth or any other passing team (and the argument that they have loads of money and somehow Warnock is still to blame having wasted all of ours doesn’t hold up if you consider the JBs and Brentford I’m afraid)

Or as any normal person would see it, two comeback wins. We didn't come from behind to win in the three 1 goal wins under Warnock. Most? I see you're discounting the 3-0s and the 4-0 win.

Yes, the Warnock money wasted argument does hold up as we still have to pay his f*ck ups. Swansea have managed to play this way without spending huge sums because they already played that way and had the players capable, have had a proper plan in place for years and have a reputation for it. Same goes for Brentford. If we were to do it we'd either have to spend big or go through years of slowly changing the side, something I doubt you'd be very happy with as it would see seasons like this one

[J R Hartley]

Or as any normal person would see it, two comeback wins. We didn't come from behind to win in the three 1 goal wins under Warnock. Most? I see you're discounting the 3-0s and the 4-0 win.

Yes, the Warnock money wasted argument does hold up as we still have to pay his f*ck ups. Swansea have managed to play this way without spending huge sums because they already played that way and had the players capable, have had a proper plan in place for years and have a reputation for it. Same goes for Brentford. If we were to do it we'd either have to spend big or go through years of slowly changing the side, something I doubt you'd be very happy with as it would see seasons like this one

Absolutely spot on.

They are deluded. They think we can just flick a switch and change style, still challenge and bring through youngsters whilst others around us either spend millions or they have a long term plan. It’s going to be a slow process and they don’t have the patience.

Is Harris the man to bring sexy football? Probably not but is he a man who can work with this squad of players and keep us competitive whilst slowly changing the squad and style. I think so. He’s brought down the age of the squad at least.

It might take another year or two of consolidation and start signing younger players with resale value to eventually move forward as a football club. For a start we need to stop signing your 28-30 year olds on 3/4 year deals and giving out 2 year deals to injures 34 year olds.

It might take a change of manager, or two changes to get there but there needs to be some kind of plan as a club. Look at Forest they are a basket case. They’ve jumped from one manager to another and got nowhere. Same for Derby and Sheff Wed.

[MacAdder]

Or as any normal person would see it, two comeback wins. We didn't come from behind to win in the three 1 goal wins under Warnock. Most? I see you're discounting the 3-0s and the 4-0 win.

Yes, the Warnock money wasted argument does hold up as we still have to pay his f*ck ups. Swansea have managed to play this way without spending huge sums because they already played that way and had the players capable, have had a proper plan in place for years and have a reputation for it. Same goes for Brentford. If we were to do it we'd either have to spend big or go through years of slowly changing the side, something I doubt you'd be very happy with as it would see seasons like this one

Absolutely spot on.

They are deluded. They think we can just flick a switch and change style, still challenge and bring through youngsters whilst others around us either spend millions or they have a long term plan. It’s going to be a slow process and they don’t have the patience.

Is Harris the man to bring sexy football? Probably not but is he a man who can work with this squad of players and keep us competitive whilst slowly changing the squad and style. I think so. He’s brought down the age of the squad at least.

It might take another year or two of consolidation and start signing younger players with resale value to eventually move forward as a football club. For a start we need to stop signing your 28-30 year olds on 3/4 year deals and giving out 2 year deals to injures 34 year olds.

It might take a change of manager, or two changes to get there but there needs to be some kind of plan as a club. Look at Forest they are a basket case. They’ve jumped from one manager to another and got nowhere. Same for Derby and Sheff Wed.

[Pearcey3]

Absolutely spot on.

They are deluded. They think we can just flick a switch and change style, still challenge and bring through youngsters whilst others around us either spend millions or they have a long term plan. It’s going to be a slow process and they don’t have the patience.

Is Harris the man to bring sexy football? Probably not but is he a man who can work with this squad of players and keep us competitive whilst slowly changing the squad and style. I think so. He’s brought down the age of the squad at least.

It might take another year or two of consolidation and start signing younger players with resale value to eventually move forward as a football club. For a start we need to stop signing your 28-30 year olds on 3/4 year deals and giving out 2 year deals to injures 34 year olds.

It might take a change of manager, or two changes to get there but there needs to be some kind of plan as a club. Look at Forest they are a basket case. They’ve jumped from one manager to another and got nowhere. Same for Derby and Sheff Wed.

Yeah this makes sense to me. I have seen constant managerial changes at Reading with no improvement at all. This season may prove to be different. Time will tell but we have been very lucky not to have been relegated in recent years and have racked up massive debts and could still face FFP penalties. We have been changing managers at a ridiculous rate.

This season may be mid table mediocrity for Cardiff but if it is used to bring about gradual change in the style of play then it may still prove to be a worthwhile season. The important part is to stay at this level and not go down. Then look to continue the gradual changes next season whilst remaining competitive. No reason why it can’t be done but it will take time.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Or as any normal person would see it, two comeback wins. We didn't come from behind to win in the three 1 goal wins under Warnock. Most? I see you're discounting the 3-0s and the 4-0 win.

Yes, the Warnock money wasted argument does hold up as we still have to pay his f*ck ups. Swansea have managed to play this way without spending huge sums because they already played that way and had the players capable, have had a proper plan in place for years and have a reputation for it. Same goes for Brentford. If we were to do it we'd either have to spend big or go through years of slowly changing the side, something I doubt you'd be very happy with as it would see seasons like this one

Well I haven’t seen anyone (bar the odd weirdo on here) who has actually said that they have enjoyed watching any of the rubbish that has been served up by the team over the last few months.

Just sayin.....

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It might take a change of manager, or two changes to get there but there needs to be some kind of plan as a club. Look at Forest they are a basket case. They’ve jumped from one manager to another and got nowhere. Same for Derby and Sheff Wed.

And this is what many of us are asking. We don't have much of a plan as a club as far as I can see, though at least we're getting some youth system going again. That will take time.

I still feel we're suffering with the same short-termism, pressure on Harris to make the top 6 with what he's got which I think is utterly ridiculous.

I think you're right, it will take a change of manager or two to get to where we need to be. We're a side that is now playing for set pieces. That's not moving forward on the pitch. That's a manager trying to make his side successful as he's under pressure from above. It needs a huge clearout, but that's not going to happen any time soon.