Did she say anything that wasn’t true?

[the other bob wilson]

I can remember people saying at the time that a break in the season would work in Leeds’ favour and they definitely ran out of steam in 18/19;-

https://www.theguardian.com/football...leeds-comments

[NYCBlue]

**** Leeds. And their fans.

[Trigger]

Probably wrong to say they were promoted because of covid, they were the best team throughout and up to the break were in fine form, they probably wanted it less than anyone at that time.

Why attention needed to be drawn to her comments by Leeds escapes me, why they didn't delete it after she started getting abuse is just further beyond my understanding.

People who use social media to abuse or harass people are a different species.

[surge]

Probably wrong to say they were promoted because of covid, they were the best team throughout and up to the break were in fine form, they probably wanted it less than anyone at that time.

Why attention needed to be drawn to her comments by Leeds escapes me, why they didn't delete it after she started getting abuse is just further beyond my understanding.

People who use social media to abuse or harass people are a different species.

How many Bielsa team's have finished the season poorly? Leeds finished poorly the season before in part because they couldn't continue the sheer effort needed over a 46 game plus season, but they got an extra long break last year and didn't finish as limply. That, to me, was Karen Carney's point and I don't disagree with it.

I can't say whether they didn't finish as limply because of the break.

Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because they've gone all in on Bielsa and have failed in so many seasons before last year. It would hurt their fragile egos to be told they got a good chunk of external help to get across the line.

[The Lone Gunman]

Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because they've gone all in on Bielsa and have failed in so many seasons before last year.

Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because it's pure speculation. Indeed, they'd already had a serious wobble following City's 3-3 draw at Elland Road in December 2019 and won only two of their next ten Championship matches. However, they had recovered their form to win five on the bounce and were looking in great shape before the lockdown, but then won just one of their first three games following the lockdown before finishing the season with six straight wins.

Leeds didn't get promoted because of Covid-19. Leeds got promoted because they were comfortably the best side in the Championship in 2019/20 - ten points ahead of the team who finished second and twelve points ahead of the side who finished third.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

How many Bielsa team's have finished the season poorly? Leeds finished poorly the season before in part because they couldn't continue the sheer effort needed over a 46 game plus season, but they got an extra long break last year and didn't finish as limply. That, to me, was Karen Carney's point and I don't disagree with it.

I can't say whether they didn't finish as limply because of the break.

Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because they've gone all in on Bielsa and have failed in so many seasons before last year. It would hurt their fragile egos to be told they got a good chunk of external help to get across the line.

Leeds absolutely pissed the league last year. The Championship was really competitive but lacked the outstanding sides it often has, bar Leeds. The fact WBA went up with 81 points shows the division was tight but lacked real quality. (Also the fact we got in the playoffs is proof of that )

[The Lone Gunman]

What Karen Carney said was stupid and the reaction from Leeds was stupid. However, this has highlighted one of the problems of having women acting as pundits in the men's game. Let's imagine Roy Keane or Rio Ferdinand or Alan Shearer had claimed Leeds got promoted because of Covid-19, and Leeds had reacted in the way they did. Would there have been the sort of outcry that we've witnessed in relation to Carney? I somehow doubt it.

[MacAdder]

How many Bielsa team's have finished the season poorly? Leeds finished poorly the season before in part because they couldn't continue the sheer effort needed over a 46 game plus season, but they got an extra long break last year and didn't finish as limply. That, to me, was Karen Carney's point and I don't disagree with it.

I can't say whether they didn't finish as limply because of the break.

Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because they've gone all in on Bielsa and have failed in so many seasons before last year. It would hurt their fragile egos to be told they got a good chunk of external help to get across the line.

This^^^

[surge]

Does Bielsa burnout exist? Would it have hit last year without lockdown? Would it have mattered or were Leeds just too good?

Questions that can be asked without abusing a woman....or calling for segregation. Last two questions can't be answered without an alternative universe.

Why don't Leeds want those questions asked?

[PontBlue]

They certainly blew up in Bielsa's first year in charge. It's probably difficult to gauge if it has happened at other teams he's managed because most may end up with a 38 game season instead of 46.

[surge]

They certainly blew up in Bielsa's first year in charge. It's probably difficult to gauge if it has happened at other teams he's managed because most may end up with a 38 game season instead of 46.

Happened at Athletic Bilbao according to Herrera and Llorente. Sky did an article on the theory here which spoke about Newell's Old Boys and Marseille too: https://www.skysports.com/football/n...the-leeds-boss

The Athletic did an article here with headline suggesting they don't believe it will happen at Leeds: https://theathletic.co.uk/2265435/20...burnout-leeds/

I think it's more likely to happen in a 46 game season (plus cup games) than in shorter seasons, but is it less likely to matter in the Championship than La Liga or Ligue 1?

That's the football side of the debate. Wider context is that women are more likely to get abused on social media and I guess women acting as pundits are more likely to be targets than ex-male pros so should Leeds have sought to manage the responses to their post more?

[The Lone Gunman]

Wider context is that women are more likely to get abused on social media and I guess women acting as pundits are more likely to be targets than ex-male pros so should Leeds have sought to manage the responses to their post more?

What evidence do you have for that claim? For instance, don't people like Lineker and Shearer get loads of abuse on social media?

[delmbox]

What evidence do you have for that claim? For instance, don't people like Lineker and Shearer get loads of abuse on social media?

I don't think it's a leap to assume that female pundits get more abuse than male pundits, and also there's the nature of the abuse, I don't think Shearer gets too many tweets saying he's going to get raped

[The Lone Gunman]

Questions that can be asked without abusing a woman....or calling for segregation. Last two questions can't be answered without an alternative universe.

Why don't Leeds want those questions asked?

What on earth are you gibbering about this time?

[surge]

Actually, think I'll leave it there otherwise we're just taking over the thread and it gets boring for everyone else.

[MacAdder]

Actually, think I'll leave it there otherwise we're just taking over the thread and it gets boring for everyone else.

Not boring at all actually, you pose some good questions backed up with a decent rationale to your opinion, one which I share.

Although the point of the lady in question may not be backed up with evidence, and be simply a gut feeling, I do think that Leeds' posting was naiive and the vitriol that followed with sexism seemed inevitable.

One question, "ex-male pros", are there many trans pundits then?

[PontBlue]

Leeds benefitted from the break in their season as it's difficult to keep up that intense style over a 46 game season. We also benefitted from the break as it allowed us to regroup, refocus and get influential players fit.

Karen Carney could have better phrased what she was saying but the jist was spot on.

[ninian opinian]

What evidence do you have for that claim? For instance, don't people like Lineker and Shearer get loads of abuse on social media?

Yes because men always get threatened with rape and vile sexist comments when someone disagrees with what they say.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Surely threatening to rape a woman whether said in public or online is a criminal offence ?

Can't the hi tec detectives of this day and age hunt these people down ?

[the other bob wilson]

Leeds did exactly what some pundits forecast they would do in 18/19, that is go off at a very quick pace and then blow up as their fast start caught up with them. Leeds were on a run of five wins in six going into their final nine regular season matches two years ago and then won three, drew one and lost five of their remaining games. They were on another very good run last season with nine matches left, but the evidence of 18/19 means that it seems reasonable to suggest it could still have gone wrong for them, but a break which lasted longer than a normal close season before they played always meant that there was no chance of tiredness being a factor - saying Leeds owed their promotion to COVID wasn’t the best way of putting it by any means, but there has to be room for an element of doubt if it wasn’t for that long break.

[The Lone Gunman]

Leeds did exactly what some pundits forecast they would do in 18/19, that is go off at a very quick pace and then blow up as their fast start caught up with them. Leeds were on a run of five wins in six going into their final nine regular season matches two years ago and then won three, drew one and lost five of their remaining games. They were on another very good run last season with nine matches left, but the evidence of 18/19 means that it seems reasonable to suggest it could still have gone wrong for them, but a break which lasted longer than a normal close season before they played always meant that there was no chance of tiredness being a factor - saying Leeds owed their promotion to COVID wasn’t the best way of putting it by any means, but there has to be room for an element of doubt if it wasn’t for that long break.

It's just speculation though, isn't it? For starters, the Leeds team of 2019/20 were more experienced than the side of 2018/19. There's also evidence to suggest they were quite simply a better team in 2019/20, while their challengers for promotion were weaker than the previous year. But again, that's just speculation.

To me, suggesting that Leeds owed their promotion to Covid-19 is just daft. Carney apparently said: "I actually think they got promoted because of Covid in terms of it gave them a bit of respite. I don't know if they would have got up if they didn't have that break."

I might be completely wrong about this, but I doubt Carney watched too much Championship football last season if she genuinely believes what she said. I watched loads of it and, to me, Leeds looked consistently and comfortably the best side in a division that appeared far from outstanding.

[the other bob wilson]

It's just speculation though, isn't it? For starters, the Leeds team of 2019/20 were more experienced than the side of 2018/19. There's also evidence to suggest they were quite simply a better team in 2019/20, while their challengers for promotion were weaker than the previous year. But again, that's just speculation.

To me, suggesting that Leeds owed their promotion to Covid-19 is just daft. Carney apparently said: "I actually think they got promoted because of Covid in terms of it gave them a bit of respite. I don't know if they would have got up if they didn't have that break."

I might be completely wrong about this, but I doubt Carney watched too much Championship football last season if she genuinely believes what she said. I watched loads of it and, to me, Leeds looked consistently and comfortably the best side in a division that appeared far from outstanding.

Well, there’s no way it can be anything but speculation is there, but it’s speculation backed up by facts from the previous season.

[The Lone Gunman]

Well, there’s no way it can be anything but speculation is there, but it’s speculation backed up by facts from the previous season.

The fact is City made a late run to nick a play-off place last season, so no worries this time round then?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

It's just speculation though, isn't it? For starters, the Leeds team of 2019/20 were more experienced than the side of 2018/19. There's also evidence to suggest they were quite simply a better team in 2019/20, while their challengers for promotion were weaker than the previous year. But again, that's just speculation.

To me, suggesting that Leeds owed their promotion to Covid-19 is just daft. Carney apparently said: "I actually think they got promoted because of Covid in terms of it gave them a bit of respite. I don't know if they would have got up if they didn't have that break."

I might be completely wrong about this, but I doubt Carney watched too much Championship football last season if she genuinely believes what she said. I watched loads of it and, to me, Leeds looked consistently and comfortably the best side in a division that appeared far from outstanding.

Karen Carney thinks Jude Bellingham will be the next Patrick Vieira, so she's lazy at best and racist at worst.

[Croesy Blue]

What evidence do you have for that claim? For instance, don't people like Lineker and Shearer get loads of abuse on social media?

There is a difference in the abuse though, the abuse they get isn’t as violent or involve threats of rape etc.

I don’t know why the answer is but it isn’t to stop women commenting on the men’s game.