Reply With Quote**** Leeds. And their fans.
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
I can remember people saying at the time that a break in the season would work in Leeds’ favour and they definitely ran out of steam in 18/19;-
https://www.theguardian.com/football...leeds-comments
**** Leeds. And their fans.
Probably wrong to say they were promoted because of covid, they were the best team throughout and up to the break were in fine form, they probably wanted it less than anyone at that time.
Why attention needed to be drawn to her comments by Leeds escapes me, why they didn't delete it after she started getting abuse is just further beyond my understanding.
People who use social media to abuse or harass people are a different species.
How many Bielsa team's have finished the season poorly? Leeds finished poorly the season before in part because they couldn't continue the sheer effort needed over a 46 game plus season, but they got an extra long break last year and didn't finish as limply. That, to me, was Karen Carney's point and I don't disagree with it.Originally Posted by Trigger
I can't say whether they didn't finish as limply because of the break.
Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because they've gone all in on Bielsa and have failed in so many seasons before last year. It would hurt their fragile egos to be told they got a good chunk of external help to get across the line.
What Karen Carney said was stupid and the reaction from Leeds was stupid. However, this has highlighted one of the problems of having women acting as pundits in the men's game. Let's imagine Roy Keane or Rio Ferdinand or Alan Shearer had claimed Leeds got promoted because of Covid-19, and Leeds had reacted in the way they did. Would there have been the sort of outcry that we've witnessed in relation to Carney? I somehow doubt it.
This^^^
Leeds presumably don't want to acknowledge the break helped them because it's pure speculation. Indeed, they'd already had a serious wobble following City's 3-3 draw at Elland Road in December 2019 and won only two of their next ten Championship matches. However, they had recovered their form to win five on the bounce and were looking in great shape before the lockdown, but then won just one of their first three games following the lockdown before finishing the season with six straight wins.
Leeds didn't get promoted because of Covid-19. Leeds got promoted because they were comfortably the best side in the Championship in 2019/20 - ten points ahead of the team who finished second and twelve points ahead of the side who finished third.
Leeds absolutely pissed the league last year. The Championship was really competitive but lacked the outstanding sides it often has, bar Leeds. The fact WBA went up with 81 points shows the division was tight but lacked real quality. (Also the fact we got in the playoffs is proof of that)
Does Bielsa burnout exist? Would it have hit last year without lockdown? Would it have mattered or were Leeds just too good?
Questions that can be asked without abusing a woman....or calling for segregation. Last two questions can't be answered without an alternative universe.
Why don't Leeds want those questions asked?
Leeds benefitted from the break in their season as it's difficult to keep up that intense style over a 46 game season. We also benefitted from the break as it allowed us to regroup, refocus and get influential players fit.
Karen Carney could have better phrased what she was saying but the jist was spot on.
They certainly blew up in Bielsa's first year in charge. It's probably difficult to gauge if it has happened at other teams he's managed because most may end up with a 38 game season instead of 46.
What on earth are you gibbering about this time?
Happened at Athletic Bilbao according to Herrera and Llorente. Sky did an article on the theory here which spoke about Newell's Old Boys and Marseille too: https://www.skysports.com/football/n...the-leeds-boss
The Athletic did an article here with headline suggesting they don't believe it will happen at Leeds: https://theathletic.co.uk/2265435/20...burnout-leeds/
I think it's more likely to happen in a 46 game season (plus cup games) than in shorter seasons, but is it less likely to matter in the Championship than La Liga or Ligue 1?
That's the football side of the debate. Wider context is that women are more likely to get abused on social media and I guess women acting as pundits are more likely to be targets than ex-male pros so should Leeds have sought to manage the responses to their post more?
What evidence do you have for that claim? For instance, don't people like Lineker and Shearer get loads of abuse on social media?
Actually, think I'll leave it there otherwise we're just taking over the thread and it gets boring for everyone else.
Not boring at all actually, you pose some good questions backed up with a decent rationale to your opinion, one which I share.
Although the point of the lady in question may not be backed up with evidence, and be simply a gut feeling, I do think that Leeds' posting was naiive and the vitriol that followed with sexism seemed inevitable.
One question, "ex-male pros", are there many trans pundits then?
Yes because men always get threatened with rape and vile sexist comments when someone disagrees with what they say.
I don't think it's a leap to assume that female pundits get more abuse than male pundits, and also there's the nature of the abuse, I don't think Shearer gets too many tweets saying he's going to get raped
Right. So what's the answer? Outlaw female football pundits? Outlaw the right to respond to comments by female football pundits? Outlaw Twitter? I don't know, but what I do know is that the subject of equality is a very tricky one and social media is an utter cesspool.
I don't have all the answers but I think a good starting point would be for clubs not to tweet stuff that will quite obviously incite elements of their fanbase to direct abuse at an individual just for stating an opinion as she is paid to do. An opinion incidentally which, although slightly clumsily expressed, was perfectly logical in its thinking.
That's an opinion on an opinion. Personally, I think she was talking nonsense about a side that was comfortably the best in the division, had already had a wobble and had come back strongly, winning five games on the bounce without conceding a goal before the lockdown.
Leeds' response was undoubtedly an error of judgement, but that's because of the society we're living in rather than anything they actually did or said. And I stand by the point I made earlier: if someone like Roy Keane or Rio Ferdinand or Alan Shearer had claimed live on air that Leeds got promoted because of Covid-19, and Leeds had reacted in the way they did, the story would barely have registered as anything more than a minor footnote.
Surely threatening to rape a woman whether said in public or online is a criminal offence ?
Can't the hi tec detectives of this day and age hunt these people down ?
Leeds did exactly what some pundits forecast they would do in 18/19, that is go off at a very quick pace and then blow up as their fast start caught up with them. Leeds were on a run of five wins in six going into their final nine regular season matches two years ago and then won three, drew one and lost five of their remaining games. They were on another very good run last season with nine matches left, but the evidence of 18/19 means that it seems reasonable to suggest it could still have gone wrong for them, but a break which lasted longer than a normal close season before they played always meant that there was no chance of tiredness being a factor - saying Leeds owed their promotion to COVID wasn’t the best way of putting it by any means, but there has to be room for an element of doubt if it wasn’t for that long break.
I genuinely don't think the levels and type of abuse would have been comparable though. There's plenty of men of a certain type who don't like the fact that women are now involved in commentary and punditry and they don't need much to kick off about it, let alone a red rag invite from their football team.
And yes you're right about that being an opinion on an opinion, I'm not saying she's 100% right but it had crossed my mind previously that a mid season break might have helped a team known for relentless pressing and not changing their starting 11, especially when you looked at previous seasons. All I'm saying is it's not the wildest suggestion in the world, she hardly said they were all roided up and Bielsa was threatening opposition managers weekly.
EDIT: And yes maybe it was nothing more than an error of judgement, but if so it was a pretty shocking one by a department that's meant to be social media savvy. So either they're incompetent or vindictive, and to be honest I find it incredibly hard to believe that a team running the Twitter account of a Premier League football club in 2020 were so naive as to not realise the abuse they were inviting onto her once they tweeted that
There is a difference in the abuse though, the abuse they get isn’t as violent or involve threats of rape etc.
I don’t know why the answer is but it isn’t to stop women commenting on the men’s game.
Posting Permissions