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Thread: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

  1. #31

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

    We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.
    Bacuna's biggest problem that he is playing in defence when he is not a defender!

    Even good defenders get done by a good winger and with no experience at the back to tell him what he should be doing now Morrison is injured, this looks like that may well continue if sides have done their homework on us.

    We are in agreement that we have problems, "in key areas" or "all over the pitch".

    In Bacuna's case it must be soul-destroying for a natural attacking player to see poor players in front of him squandering chances (especially when they are sparce) and losing the ball easily, even moreso when it looks like many aren't trying (perhaps some are trying but others just aren't up to it).

    We don't have any willing runners now Mark Harris is out of favour which doesn't help and the ball keeps coming back, usually down our weakest flank.
    It's no wonder Bacuna is being exposed.

  2. #32

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    Do you realise that Brendan Rodgers has also called out Benkovic in public? I doubt that Harris has burned any bridges with Leicester by doing the same.
    He called him out in public. He didn't directly blame him for costing the club a result and single him out in a poor team performance. Also, Harris is no Brendan Rodgers. Maybe when Brendan Rodgers calls you out, if gives you a kick up the arse and sends a message to the rest of the squad. I very much doubt that Harris holds sway in equal measure.

  3. #33

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Well, it was a long time ago, and the game has moved on massively, and i didn't get to any great heights on the playing side of things, although i was around professionals for a decent period of time. Most of the players i was around couldn't really play anyway I can recall certain players being more professional than others, Alan Curtis, Ian rodgerson, George wood and Leigh Barnard. Those players cared about their preparation and they stayed out after training. They also spoke about the game and how they thought it should be played, even if, at times, they didn't have the ability to implement it.

    The game wasn't as technical back then, although i do remember arguments in training, especially from midfield players who would get frustrated at the ball going long from fullbacks etc, although that was what Burrows and Ashurst wanted. I'd say that most of the playing staff weren't that concerned with the style of play back then as long ball was the norm, and most of them (including myself, although i did like to play) didn't have the ability to carry out a more passing, technical based style.

    From my point of view (and that of other young players that were at the club at the same time) the training and coaching was shit, it squeezed any amount of ability out of a player, it was all about hitting channels. The youth-reserve team coach was Bob Smith, he wasn't a nice man at all, a bully, we reported him to our PFA rep (Nick Platneaur) at the time, but nothing came of it.

    Do i think that players care? Some more than others, most didn't really give a shit and were just after a contract in my opinion.
    Thanks, I suppose it's the same as in other walks of life, there will be those who are conscientious and serious about their work, others who just see it as a wage packet and most others who come somewhere in the middle. I do wonder though whether, with it being a more technical game these days, we might have a few who are not happy about having to play in what I'd say in a pretty untechnical way.

    Whatever the truth about that, I do agree that something seems different this season - we seem to have a bit of a "soft centre" and the fact we've conceded the first goal so often does make me wonder about concentration levels.

  4. #34

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Just out of interest, when a Play Off team ends up having the sort of season we are after not losing too many of the previous seasons players, what sort of proportion of the blame should be directed at the players, because it seems to me that ours are getting off virtually Scot free.
    I'd be interested to know why the players are going through the motions. The sudden drop off in form isn't just that players aren't good enough, or a few injuries.

  5. #35

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    Do you realise that Brendan Rodgers has also called out Benkovic in public? I doubt that Harris has burned any bridges with Leicester by doing the same.
    Rodgers merely pointed out that he needed to impress more in training to get a chance.

    Harris blamed him for losing to Wycombe. ... After he left the club.

    Yes he made an important mistake or two, but the whole team was awful and didn't perform. To pick on him solely, I thought was below the belt.

    I hope we haven't burnt bridges with any club. But Benkovic will certainly not be praising Cardiff or Harris to teammates.

  6. #36

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Thanks, I suppose it's the same as in other walks of life, there will be those who are conscientious and serious about their work, others who just see it as a wage packet and most others who come somewhere in the middle. I do wonder though whether, with it being a more technical game these days, we might have a few who are not happy about having to play in what I'd say in a pretty untechnical way.

    Whatever the truth about that, I do agree that something seems different this season - we seem to have a bit of a "soft centre" and the fact we've conceded the first goal so often does make me wonder about concentration levels.
    Certainly something seems different this season and yes players are to blame, but at the end of the day the manager has to take responsibility.

  7. #37

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Top be fair to Benkovic, whilst he had a bit of a stinker of a debut, he hadn't played all season except for a couple fo U23 games. He only came on when Morrison was injured and was expected to be wonderful. Perhaps if Harris had rotated his players more he would have a had a few game under his belt by the time of the Wycombe game. And for Swansea too when he played the same starting XI 5 games in a row I think.

    It is, however, unacceptable for Harris to call out Benkovic in these circumstances. He's just trying to deflect blame off himself. I wonder how Benkovic feels, being given a chance to get games at a Championship club and then never used.

    Harris said he had spoke to the owner and the board last week and wants to keep the discussion private. Fair enough, but it would appear he has been warned that his time with us could be limited.

  8. #38

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    Do you know which episode it was?
    Erm, good question! I think it would have been early last season, before a Wales game where they spoke about Matthews getting his career back on track at Charlton and performing at Championship level.

  9. #39

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Certainly something seems different this season and yes players are to blame, but at the end of the day the manager has to take responsibility.
    I agree (what looks like bad news today with Osei-Tutu only further highlights our manager's blunder when it comes to the right back position) that Neil Harris has had a poor second season after what was an impressive first one. I certainly don't think this squad of players is as poor as some on here do - if they were, then we could be said to be doing well to be where we are, but, for me, we've been under achieving all season apart from that run a month ago when it looked like we'd turned a corner.

  10. #40

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    I also don’t think the squad is as poor as some say, it’s not just the style of play, there is definitely something missing from the intensity and pace that we’re playing at, the players just seem to be going through the motions. It was noticeable in that run of 4 consecutive games that we won , that we picked the pace up, closed down quicker , worked harder in all areas of the pitch. Watching some of the FA cup games over the weekend, even the lower league sides were working harder than we do to close players down and press harder

  11. #41

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    He called him out in public. He didn't directly blame him for costing the club a result and single him out in a poor team performance. Also, Harris is no Brendan Rodgers. Maybe when Brendan Rodgers calls you out, if gives you a kick up the arse and sends a message to the rest of the squad. I very much doubt that Harris holds sway in equal measure.
    He told the press that Matthews would be reminded of that own goal for the rest of his career and he had no idea what was going through his head. Or words to that effect.

    18 and our player.

    If Bagan scored an own goal and Harris came out with that than this would be a 20 pager by now. Pitchforks at the ready.

    Add in the fact we all know about the indiscipline at the club amongst the players and Jones lays into Matthews.

  12. #42

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    Erm, good question! I think it would have been early last season, before a Wales game where they spoke about Matthews getting his career back on track at Charlton and performing at Championship level.

  13. #43

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    He told the press that Matthews would be reminded of that own goal for the rest of his career and he had no idea what was going through his head. Or words to that effect.

    18 and our player.

    If Bagan scored an own goal and Harris came out with that than this would be a 20 pager by now. Pitchforks at the ready.

    Add in the fact we all know about the indiscipline at the club amongst the players and Jones lays into Matthews.
    Dave Jones? What's he got to do with this?

  14. #44

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I agree (what looks like bad news today with Osei-Tutu only further highlights our manager's blunder when it comes to the right back position) that Neil Harris has had a poor second season after what was an impressive first one. I certainly don't think this squad of players is as poor as some on here do - if they were, then we could be said to be doing well to be where we are, but, for me, we've been under achieving all season apart from that run a month ago when it looked like we'd turned a corner.
    Phillips

    N/A
    Bamba
    Benkovic
    Cunningham/Bagan

    N/A
    Vaulks

    Whyte
    Murphy
    Hoilett

    Glatzel/Harris

    The players we've got coming into the team to cover for injury/fatigue don't fill me with great confidence. I'm happy with the depth at GK, LB and... well, most of these are young players just starting out (hard to judge), older players close to calling it a day or players Warnock signed and they haven't shown us why yet despite a few years at the club.

    One football analyst commented on Trent Alexander Arnold having a poor game the other day and said they had seen several high profile players having more off days this year than normal. Don't think you can underestimate how much football, in difficult circumstances, has been played since June and we've have had a shorter break than most. I think the players brought in are mostly the correct ones but we've seemingly gone from a deeper more limited squad to a squad less able to compete due to lesser depth despite quite good transfer activity - exception being lack of second RB. Earlier point made by another poster about Harris not rotating will mean this hits us harder than it might otherwise have done so.

    The other thing to mention is the point I alluded to earlier looking at Millwall or in a different post about Wayne Pivac: teaching players to show different skills is not easy and might need more time and greater change in personal than fans are willing to give and board is able to process.

    Think we are underperforming (still estimate us as 9th/10th best in the league which we're now a few points away from) and, now, happy to question why so many slow starts/sloppy goals, but the idea that we're got a squad to be challenging doesn't make sense to me.

  15. #45

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    We have a solid uninspiring unbalanced squad.

    The injury to Moore has exacerbated the issue. He is a physical player but eventually Harris realised with the lack of passers in midfield and the absence of genuine pace on the flanks we had to revert to a 442 Big man, speedster 80’s look. It was working until the injury. Even if it meant Wilson as a 442 wide midfielder.

    The only player to get a tune out of Glatzel is Tomlin. If Lee has the ball its likely to be in the important third and Glatzel wants to be passed into space and Tomlin is our only real passer with touch and feel. I am not sure if that says more about Tomlins attributes or Glatzels lack of suitability for the championship but, I am sure Keiffer would love a perfectly weighted ball into a bit of space rather than having to scrap for your life every now and then.

    Our midfield was bought to be solid, relentless and tough. I think Pack was seen as having those qualities as well as better passing, but in truth is physically lacking the attributes of the other midfielders and his passing is marginally better although he is difficult to dispossess.

    Ralls and Bacuna give us enough energy and power to allow the luxury player in midfield. We get away with Ralls and Vaulks, but the second we add Pack then Ralls is sent to the head of the vanguard where he is largely ineffective

    Zohore, Junior and NML (then Murphy) gave us so much power, pace and finesse that the midfield only needed to be a “will not yield” group, well led by Gunnar (Ralls was an excellent accomplice). We have never recovered from this set up.

    I think Harris has been dealt a poor hand, but that is life. His lack of any adventure to find solutions is disappointing.
    Bennett did well as a centre half through necessity but can’t play right back ?
    Murphy has so much skill but little defensive application, are you telling me he would be less effective up front than Glatzel ?
    Pack or Vaulks can surely play centre half.
    Wilson surely is better than M Harris as a striker in a 442, if not surely Murphy is ?
    Whyte maybe a full back at this level.
    Is Junior an attacking centre midfielder nowadays ?

    He has been unlucky, but unwilling to try things and doesn’t learn.

    “There is nothing better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time.”– Malcolm X

  16. #46

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    Dave Jones? What's he got to do with this?
    Read the op.

    Its an attack on the manager calling him an odious coward and weve had awful managers but not like him.

    Jones attack on Matthews in my opinion was a lot worse so thought id point that out.

    By the way I dont think Jones was an odious coward it was just the wrong thing to do especially with his bunch of under achievers.

  17. #47

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Read the op.

    Its an attack on the manager calling him an odious coward and weve had awful managers but not like him.

    Jones attack on Matthews in my opinion was a lot worse so thought id point that out.

    By the way I dont think Jones was an odious coward it was just the wrong thing to do especially with his bunch of under achievers.
    I think that attack on Matthews was cowardly on a youngster who wouldn't have spoken out against it. I don't recall him ever speaking out as badly about other players whenever they had an absolute mare.

  18. #48

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by mbatte View Post
    He needs to go.
    Is he still here? I’m sure I heard he was going to get the boot yesterday. I hope Tan speaks to all at sheff weds about Pulis too

  19. #49
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    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I think that attack on Matthews was cowardly on a youngster who wouldn't have spoken out against it. I don't recall him ever speaking out as badly about other players whenever they had an absolute mare.
    Its hardly as if Matthews was the only unprofessional player at the club as well

  20. #50

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by llan bluebird View Post
    We have a solid uninspiring unbalanced squad.

    The injury to Moore has exacerbated the issue. He is a physical player but eventually Harris realised with the lack of passers in midfield and the absence of genuine pace on the flanks we had to revert to a 442 Big man, speedster 80’s look. It was working until the injury. Even if it meant Wilson as a 442 wide midfielder.

    The only player to get a tune out of Glatzel is Tomlin. If Lee has the ball its likely to be in the important third and Glatzel wants to be passed into space and Tomlin is our only real passer with touch and feel. I am not sure if that says more about Tomlins attributes or Glatzels lack of suitability for the championship but, I am sure Keiffer would love a perfectly weighted ball into a bit of space rather than having to scrap for your life every now and then.

    Our midfield was bought to be solid, relentless and tough. I think Pack was seen as having those qualities as well as better passing, but in truth is physically lacking the attributes of the other midfielders and his passing is marginally better although he is difficult to dispossess.

    Ralls and Bacuna give us enough energy and power to allow the luxury player in midfield. We get away with Ralls and Vaulks, but the second we add Pack then Ralls is sent to the head of the vanguard where he is largely ineffective

    Zohore, Junior and NML (then Murphy) gave us so much power, pace and finesse that the midfield only needed to be a “will not yield” group, well led by Gunnar (Ralls was an excellent accomplice). We have never recovered from this set up.

    I think Harris has been dealt a poor hand, but that is life. His lack of any adventure to find solutions is disappointing.
    Bennett did well as a centre half through necessity but can’t play right back ?
    Murphy has so much skill but little defensive application, are you telling me he would be less effective up front than Glatzel ?
    Pack or Vaulks can surely play centre half.
    Wilson surely is better than M Harris as a striker in a 442, if not surely Murphy is ?
    Whyte maybe a full back at this level.
    Is Junior an attacking centre midfielder nowadays ?


    He has been unlucky, but unwilling to try things and doesn’t learn.

    “There is nothing better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time.”– Malcolm X
    Was also thinking of that recently.

    StT.
    <><

  21. #51

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Tea View Post
    Was also thinking of that recently.

    StT.
    <><
    All wingers become midfield players when the opposition have the ball.

  22. #52

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    It's because he doesn't fancy it. He's only being asked to get a bit tighter and to make the opposition player think a bit, narrow his options. He's not interested in my opinion.
    You may be right. We can't know what's in his mind and you could understand him being a bit pissed off after being asked to cover another position for so long and looking like a donkey as a result.
    I do still think that the closer he crowds his man when it's not his thing, the more he'll be left sitting on his arse in the corner with a winger running free into space.

  23. #53

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    You may be right. We can't know what's in his mind and you could understand him being a bit pissed off after being asked to cover another position for so long and looking like a donkey as a result.
    I do still think that the closer he crowds his man when it's not his thing, the more he'll be left sitting on his arse in the corner with a winger running free into space.
    Fair shout, you could well be right

  24. #54

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Bacuna has played at right back in the Premier League for Villa - according to Wikipedia “he impressed many in his debut season for the Villains despite constantly playing out of position at right back”. I believe he was playing there when he scored against us in 13/14 and so it’s a bit surprising that he’s found it such a struggle in recent weeks, although, as mentioned previously during a commentary on the club website, his wandering out of position might partially be down to instructions to push into midfield if we’re chasing the game.

  25. #55

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Read the op.

    Its an attack on the manager calling him an odious coward and weve had awful managers but not like him.

    Jones attack on Matthews in my opinion was a lot worse so thought id point that out.

    By the way I dont think Jones was an odious coward it was just the wrong thing to do especially with his bunch of under achievers.

    I thought that Dave Jones was well out of order the way he treated Matthews. I disliked his attitude while at the club. Ask the kitchen staff at the club, he was arrogant and thought he was too good to be at cardiff. He also should have gotten us promoted with probably one of the most talented teams we have ever seen at city.

    However, despite my dislike of Jones as a person and his appalling Matthews criticism, Jones did show signs of self reflection on occasions when we had a bad run. Harris seems incapable of that and his default setting is to blame anyone other than himself.

  26. #56

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    I thought that Dave Jones was well out of order the way he treated Matthews. I disliked his attitude while at the club. Ask the kitchen staff at the club, he was arrogant and thought he was too good to be at cardiff. He also should have gotten us promoted with probably one of the most talented teams we have ever seen at city.

    However, despite my dislike of Jones as a person and his appalling Matthews criticism, Jones did show signs of self reflection on occasions when we had a bad run. Harris seems incapable of that and his default setting is to blame anyone other than himself.
    Dave Jones' disagreements with the late Steve Tucker were common knowledge, but Tucker later published a long and frank letter that Jones had sent him after he left Cardiff in which he admitted to being too quick to bite back when Tucker wrote something he disagreed with. It showed a side of Jones that we never saw while he was at Cardiff and I've often thought that the false allegations he had to face which led to him losing the Southampton job must have had an impact on him in his dealings with the media - it would hardly be a surprise if it made him defensive and suspicious of the press and played a part in the whole "surly scouser" thing.

    In saying that, I can't ever remember Dave Jones being a barrel of laughs while he was Stockport manager, so maybe I'm reading too much into things. I've heard that Elis James podcast discussion about Adam Matthews and Gabbs was, mildly, critical of him, but I don't see that justifies what his manager said about the teenager following his own goal at Ipswich - as has been mentioned, there were more senior members of the squad whose behaviour left much to be desired and, seemingly, nothing was said to them by the manager.

  27. #57

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quite simply I think the players are not enjoying the way we play, train, etc... Going to work us not fun and it shows in their performance. That's down to the manager and coaches.
    Sadly my initial feelings about Harris when he was appointed ( I was surprised last season and said maybe I was wrong when he got us to 5th.) seemed to have been proven correct.
    On the right back situation, why didn't we try and pick up Chris Gunter? Yes, He couldn't be guaranteed a start but he could cover right across the back having seen him play right, centre and left back for Wales also with his experience and knowing the Welsh players would have surely been an asset?

  28. #58

    Re: Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by billy.ronson View Post
    Quite simply I think the players are not enjoying the way we play, train, etc... Going to work us not fun and it shows in their performance. That's down to the manager and coaches.
    Sadly my initial feelings about Harris when he was appointed ( I was surprised last season and said maybe I was wrong when he got us to 5th.) seemed to have been proven correct.
    On the right back situation, why didn't we try and pick up Chris Gunter? Yes, He couldn't be guaranteed a start but he could cover right across the back having seen him play right, centre and left back for Wales also with his experience and knowing the Welsh players would have surely been an asset?
    Maybe there was no money for an ageing full back particularly as cover.

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