Harris (a wee rant, sorry)

[Tuerto]

The same can be said about any of our defence, defensive midfield too for that matter.
We have conceded some really poor goals this season, something that wasn't there, or if it was it wasn't obvious, last season.
Too many people unwilling, or not knowing how, to get a block in or stop a cross.

That could be down to the fact that Bacuna is a right sided midfielder and not a natural right sided defender which has disrupted the defence in general, but I doubt it as he has put in some good performances this season.

Unfortunately, the depth of quality there and in other key positions that most saw as a potential problem early on, is playing out.

I have to agree with the OP (lthough not having seen the interview myself so taking it as written) to blame a player, who has now left us, in a game that happened before the latest loss is a cheap shot, but an understandable one from a man who seems to be staring down the barrel, again.

I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

[the other bob wilson]

I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

I agree entirely with your second paragraph. At the moment we're poor at the things we're usually good at, that's why I brought up the matter of the players getting away with things - I would have thought Neil Harris would have been taking things like that for granted at the start of the season.

Can I ask you as someone who has a better idea than most of us of how pros feel about the game given your time with the club, would there be any resentment at having to play in what is still a pretty regimented manner for a side that gives the impression at times that it does not want to have the football week in, week out, season in season out? If it was me, I'd hate having to play like we do all of the time, but then I've only ever played the game for enjoyment, do those who play it for a living have an attitude which says they pay my wages so I do what I'm told unquestioningly, or do they look at other clubs that play in a more progressive and entertaining manner and think that could be me?

[Tuerto]

I agree entirely with your second paragraph. At the moment we're poor at the things we're usually good at, that's why I brought up the matter of the players getting away with things - I would have thought Neil Harris would have been taking things like that for granted at the start of the season.

Can I ask you as someone who has a better idea than most of us of how pros feel about the game given your time with the club, would there be any resentment at having to play in what is still a pretty regimented manner for a side that gives the impression at times that it does not want to have the football week in, week out, season in season out? If it was me, I'd hate having to play like we do all of the time, but then I've only ever played the game for enjoyment, do those who play it for a living have an attitude which says they pay my wages so I do what I'm told unquestioningly, or do they look at other clubs that play in a more progressive and entertaining manner and think that could be me?

Well, it was a long time ago, and the game has moved on massively, and i didn't get to any great heights on the playing side of things, although i was around professionals for a decent period of time. Most of the players i was around couldn't really play anyway I can recall certain players being more professional than others, Alan Curtis, Ian rodgerson, George wood and Leigh Barnard. Those players cared about their preparation and they stayed out after training. They also spoke about the game and how they thought it should be played, even if, at times, they didn't have the ability to implement it.

The game wasn't as technical back then, although i do remember arguments in training, especially from midfield players who would get frustrated at the ball going long from fullbacks etc, although that was what Burrows and Ashurst wanted. I'd say that most of the playing staff weren't that concerned with the style of play back then as long ball was the norm, and most of them (including myself, although i did like to play) didn't have the ability to carry out a more passing, technical based style.

From my point of view (and that of other young players that were at the club at the same time) the training and coaching was shit, it squeezed any amount of ability out of a player, it was all about hitting channels. The youth-reserve team coach was Bob Smith, he wasn't a nice man at all, a bully, we reported him to our PFA rep (Nick Platneaur) at the time, but nothing came of it.

Do i think that players care? Some more than others, most didn't really give a shit and were just after a contract in my opinion.

[the other bob wilson]

Well, it was a long time ago, and the game has moved on massively, and i didn't get to any great heights on the playing side of things, although i was around professionals for a decent period of time. Most of the players i was around couldn't really play anyway I can recall certain players being more professional than others, Alan Curtis, Ian rodgerson, George wood and Leigh Barnard. Those players cared about their preparation and they stayed out after training. They also spoke about the game and how they thought it should be played, even if, at times, they didn't have the ability to implement it.

The game wasn't as technical back then, although i do remember arguments in training, especially from midfield players who would get frustrated at the ball going long from fullbacks etc, although that was what Burrows and Ashurst wanted. I'd say that most of the playing staff weren't that concerned with the style of play back then as long ball was the norm, and most of them (including myself, although i did like to play) didn't have the ability to carry out a more passing, technical based style.

From my point of view (and that of other young players that were at the club at the same time) the training and coaching was shit, it squeezed any amount of ability out of a player, it was all about hitting channels. The youth-reserve team coach was Bob Smith, he wasn't a nice man at all, a bully, we reported him to our PFA rep (Nick Platneaur) at the time, but nothing came of it.

Do i think that players care? Some more than others, most didn't really give a shit and were just after a contract in my opinion.

Thanks, I suppose it's the same as in other walks of life, there will be those who are conscientious and serious about their work, others who just see it as a wage packet and most others who come somewhere in the middle. I do wonder though whether, with it being a more technical game these days, we might have a few who are not happy about having to play in what I'd say in a pretty untechnical way.

Whatever the truth about that, I do agree that something seems different this season - we seem to have a bit of a "soft centre" and the fact we've conceded the first goal so often does make me wonder about concentration levels.

[RonnieBird]

I picked up on bacuna because it look so obvious. Anyone that has played the game at any level knows that when a fullback stands off a wide man and allows the cross, it usually means that he doesn't fancy the 1 on 1, doesn't want to put himself in a position where he gets done, Bacuna does it quite often, with the thinking that he'll just push the problem a little further down the production line (centre backs defending the cross) sadly, quality control (Morrison and Nelson) aren't picking up on things at the moment. Bacuna's biggest problem at right back is that he has no turn of pace, he is done easily on the outside and that isn't compensated by a central defender pulling over to help him, he can't tackle either.

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

Yes, but isn't that because he's NOT a full back and he's doing his best to cover a position he's been asked to fill in for?
He knows he'd get beaten if he closed in on his man all the time so he's doing the next best thing and trying to close him down a bit and still stay active in the play.
Can't blame him for that. I think he's done well covering there on the odd occasion but he shouldn't be expected to do it every week.

[Tuerto]

Yes, but isn't that because he's NOT a full back and he's doing his best to cover a position he's been asked to fill in for?
He knows he'd get beaten if he closed in on his man all the time so he's doing the next best thing and trying to close him down a bit and still stay active in the play.
Can't blame him for that. I think he's done well covering there on the odd occasion but he shouldn't be expected to do it every week.

It's because he doesn't fancy it. He's only being asked to get a bit tighter and to make the opposition player think a bit, narrow his options. He's not interested in my opinion.

[RonnieBird]

It's because he doesn't fancy it. He's only being asked to get a bit tighter and to make the opposition player think a bit, narrow his options. He's not interested in my opinion.

You may be right. We can't know what's in his mind and you could understand him being a bit pissed off after being asked to cover another position for so long and looking like a donkey as a result.
I do still think that the closer he crowds his man when it's not his thing, the more he'll be left sitting on his arse in the corner with a winger running free into space.

[Tuerto]

You may be right. We can't know what's in his mind and you could understand him being a bit pissed off after being asked to cover another position for so long and looking like a donkey as a result.
I do still think that the closer he crowds his man when it's not his thing, the more he'll be left sitting on his arse in the corner with a winger running free into space.

Fair shout, you could well be right

[Pedro de la Rosa]

We are poor all over the pitch, when the quality runs dry (which is often the case at our club) then workrate, honesty and character are the traits that we've relied onto get us through, although those attributes seem to be abandoning us at the moment as well, which is very worrying in my opinion, because we are massively reliant on those aspects of the game.

This is why Harris needs to go, the players have quit on him.