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Thread: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

  1. #51
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    You keep on conflating two different things.

    Did people 'vote to leave' by splitting the Remain or 2nd Referendum vote between Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and the nationalists - who together got the majority of votes in the 2019 election?

    It is fair to say that Labour took a hit in 2019 because a significant part of their 'red wall' votes from 2017 and earlier went to the Tories mainly in response to 'Get Brexit done'.

    But majority of seats for a Brexit Tory party and a majority of votes for parties who held the opposite position can co-exist - and did!
    People keep quoting this, didn't get 50% of the vote mantra, but we all know that this is the way elections are and always have been decided in this country.
    Yet every time labour, and in this case remainers, lose they trot it out like it's a shock, outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. They just cannot accept that they lost and move on.
    And the longer they are in that mode the longer it will take to have an effectgive opposition in Parliament.
    It really is time to give it a rest.

  2. #52

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    People keep quoting this, didn't get 50% of the vote mantra, but we all know that this is the way elections are and always have been decided in this country.
    Yet every time labour, and in this case remainers, lose they trot it out like it's a shock, outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. They just cannot accept that they lost and move on.
    And the longer they are in that mode the longer it will take to have an effectgive opposition in Parliament.
    It really is time to give it a rest.
    He's not saying that ffs, try and understand it please.

  3. #53

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    People keep quoting this, didn't get 50% of the vote mantra, but we all know that this is the way elections are and always have been decided in this country.
    Yet every time labour, and in this case remainers, lose they trot it out like it's a shock, outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. They just cannot accept that they lost and move on.
    And the longer they are in that mode the longer it will take to have an effectgive opposition in Parliament.
    It really is time to give it a rest.
    That's why people bring it up; referendums and elections operate differently, so you can't conclude that people voted for Brexit in the General Election just because a pro-Brexit party ended up with more seats.

  4. #54
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    That's why people bring it up; referendums and elections operate differently, so you can't conclude that people voted for Brexit in the General Election just because a pro-Brexit party ended up with more seats.
    No you can't if you refuse to see it. But I think you'll find that largely, the seats in the labour 'red wall' that turned blue whould be found to be in areas where the referendum vote was predominantly to leave.
    But of course Brext had ablsolutely nothing to do with the election result.
    Hasn't it occurred to any remainers that if, as they assert, the referendum and the election result had nothing to do with each other then that means that Boris Joihnson gained his huge majority in spite of Btexit and not because of it. That thought is far more scary than brexit itself.

  5. #55
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    No you can't if you refuse to see it. But I think you'll find that largely, the seats in the labour 'red wall' that turned blue whould be found to be in areas where the referendum vote was predominantly to leave.
    But of course Brext had ablsolutely nothing to do with the election result.
    Hasn't it occurred to any remainers that if, as they assert, the referendum and the election result had nothing to do with each other then that means that Boris Joihnson gained his huge majority in spite of Btexit and not because of it. That thought is far more scary than brexit itself.
    Who has claimed the referendum and election result had nothing to do with each other? They clearly did.

    The Tories took votes from Labour mainly because Labour had an incoherent Brexit policy and the Tories had a very simple one which appealed to Brexit supporting previously Labour voters. Brexit was a major factor in the Tories getting an 80 seat majority.

    But it is you who keeps using the 2019 election outcome to say that the electorate supported Brexit through their vote. Most didn't.

    Most people who voted in 2019 supported parties that wanted to reverse Brexit (Lib Dems) or hold a second referendum on the emerging deal - with a probable recommendation to reject (the others). Most people wanted a second bite at the Brexit question. But it wasn't a Brexit referendum it was a general election - so the 'Get Brexit Done' Tories won the argument at the ballot box.

  6. #56

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    No you can't if you refuse to see it. But I think you'll find that largely, the seats in the labour 'red wall' that turned blue whould be found to be in areas where the referendum vote was predominantly to leave.
    But of course Brext had ablsolutely nothing to do with the election result.
    Hasn't it occurred to any remainers that if, as they assert, the referendum and the election result had nothing to do with each other then that means that Boris Joihnson gained his huge majority in spite of Btexit and not because of it. That thought is far more scary than brexit itself.
    No remainers are asserting that.

    I said you can't make the conclusion that a Tory win meant people voted to leave because it's counted very differently.

  7. #57
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    [QUOTE=lardy;5162822]That's why people bring it up; referendums and elections operate differently, so you can't conclude that people voted for Brexit in the General Election just because a pro-Brexit party ended up with more seats.[/QU

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  8. #58
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    No remainers are asserting that.

    I said you can't make the conclusion that a Tory win meant people voted to leave because it's counted very differently.
    I know what you said but I think you're wrong.
    how do you know that NO remainers are asserting that/They change their argument every day. And all the insults and vitriol about something they can do nothing about.

  9. #59

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Is it really that much of a false equivalence comparing those that believe That Trump had the election stolen and Remainers who for years denied the legitimacy of the Brexit Vote?

  10. #60

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I know what you said but I think you're wrong.
    how do you know that NO remainers are asserting that/They change their argument every day. And all the insults and vitriol about something they can do nothing about.
    Ridiculous semantics. I could look at your post:

    "Hasn't it occurred to any remainers that if, as they assert, the referendum and the election result had nothing to do with each other"

    and suggest that when you say "any remainers/they" you're talking about ALL remainers.

    But I won't because they're obviously figures of speech. Let's not sink to this.

  11. #61

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Is it really that much of a false equivalence comparing those that believe That Trump had the election stolen and Remainers who for years denied the legitimacy of the Brexit Vote?
    I'm not saying the referendum was illegitimate here, but I would say that a major difference is that there were a lot of investigations, recounts and court cases regarding the US election in the space of a few weeks. The argument was simply that Biden hadn't had more votes. I don't think anyone* has said that the vote counting was wrong.


    *fao xsnaggle, don't take 'anyone' completely literally. It may have been mentioned by some loon as far as I know.

  12. #62
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Is it really that much of a false equivalence comparing those that believe That Trump had the election stolen and Remainers who for years denied the legitimacy of the Brexit Vote?
    Totally false equivalence.

    No one has disputed the EU Referendum vote in the UK. Very few people have challenged its legitimacy.

    A lot of people on both sides of the argument have claimed the other lot were dishonest with their claims.

    A lot of people on the Remain side, whilst accepting the result, made the argument that the devil will be in the detail and the people should have an opportunity to decide if they like the detail that finally emerged.

  13. #63
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Totally false equivalence.

    No one has disputed the EU Referendum vote in the UK. Very few people have challenged its legitimacy.

    A lot of people on both sides of the argument have claimed the other lot were dishonest with their claims.

    A lot of people on the Remain side, whilst accepting the result, made the argument that the devil will be in the detail and the people should have an opportunity to decide if they like the detail that finally emerged.
    But they only made that argument because they lost!

  14. #64
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    But they only made that argument because they lost!
    It would be a strange argument to make if they had won

  15. #65

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    But they only made that argument because they lost!
    Rees-Mogg also made that argument before the referendum.

  16. #66
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Rees-Mogg also made that argument before the referendum.
    But his side didn't lose.

    It's done. It's time foks got over it ad stopped baging on about. Better chanel their energies to making it work.

    But of course, as has been said, some people want it to fail and don't care if that damages the country.

  17. #67
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    But his side didn't lose.

    It's done. It's time foks got over it ad stopped baging on about. Better chanel their energies to making it work.

    But of course, as has been said, some people want it to fail and don't care if that damages the country.
    "Better chanel their energies to making it work."

    How does one do that?

    Edit: I missed a great chance for a Coco Chanel joke there

  18. #68

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    But his side didn't lose.

    It's done. It's time foks got over it ad stopped baging on about. Better chanel their energies to making it work.

    But of course, as has been said, some people want it to fail and don't care if that damages the country.
    Is that you, Officer Crabtree?

  19. #69

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    But his side didn't lose.

    It's done. It's time foks got over it ad stopped baging on about. Better chanel their energies to making it work.

    But of course, as has been said, some people want it to fail and don't care if that damages the country.
    So maybe the argument is not being made just because they lost, given that someone who won made it beforehand? Maybe that suggests it's sensible.

  20. #70
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    So maybe the argument is not being made just because they lost, given that someone who won made it beforehand? Maybe that suggests it's sensible.
    The argument is being made now by those who cannot accept that their side lost, just as it is by the people on here, as much as they attempt to dress it up as something else.

  21. #71

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    But his side didn't lose.

    It's done. It's time foks got over it ad stopped baging on about. Better chanel their energies to making it work.

    But of course, as has been said, some people want it to fail and don't care if that damages the country.
    Your last line I think somes it up very well, best not to post any positiveness is maybe the solution ,its like any form of success is a poison ?

  22. #72

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    The argument is being made now by those who cannot accept that their side lost, just as it is by the people on here, as much as they attempt to dress it up as something else.
    The argument is not being made by the people who eventually won any more because it doesn't suit them. It was being made by them when they didn't think they'd win.

    That should be a big clue for you...

  23. #73

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The argument is not being made by the people who eventually won any more because it doesn't suit them. It was being made by them when they didn't think they'd win.

    That should be a big clue for you...
    More positive news..........if you are Dutch!

    https://www.ft.com/content/3dad4ef3-...3-f629a5b7d0aa

  24. #74

    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    More positive news..........if you are Dutch!

    https://www.ft.com/content/3dad4ef3-...3-f629a5b7d0aa
    Its a difficult one as there are voices on both sides of the political and financial argument , some say there has been no real financial benefit of being in Europe since its conception ,some say its hugely regulated , slow moving , and that reduces freedoms outside of Europe , some say other markets like Asia are the new dawn .

    Watching the Vaccine roll out one could say independent ( quicker ) decision making helped the UK in its moment of need .

    UK may prosper , or fall , no one really knows , all we do know is were a big economy , and someone will want our money and our trade including our valuable service ,security and science /medicine knowledge industries and form partnership / trade deals , and joining the ( CPTPP ) Asia-Pacific free trade bloc ,realigning with Commonwealth countries will be a interesting move .

    There is no doubt this is a big leap for teh UK fraught with issues on the way out of the door , it was never claimed to be easy, it was though a democratic decision through many elections and a a ground breaking high turn out referendum .

  25. #75
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    Re: For those who voted 'to get Brexit done'

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Its a difficult one as there are voices on both sides of the political and financial argument , some say there has been no real financial benefit of being in Europe since its conception ,some say its hugely regulated , slow moving , and that reduces freedoms outside of Europe , some say other markets like Asia are the new dawn .

    Is that your best stab at presenting both sides of the political and financial argument?

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