This Eu vaccine row

[xsnaggle]

Having made the mistake of helping this thread off track by a good discussion with Sludge about DLA/PIP, I will try not to do the same again. I will therefore not discuss Leave voters or Remain voters or pigs in a trough or gammon and concentrate on replying to your last sentence

There may have been little or nothing for leave supporter to get their teeth into (in the last month possibly correct, in the last 4 years questionable but that's another thread, let's not get side tracked again! )

But this comedy of errors was a Doozie and has turned into the gift that kept giving.

First the EU as I pointed out at the start seemed to suggest that Astra Zeneca should fulfill the contract with them at the expense of us giving them some of our vaccines so that the UK Astra Zeneca contract won't be fulfilled on time even though we signed ours three months before the EU finally got round to signing one!!

Then the Germans suddenly seem to find that the Astra Zeneca vaccine won't be effective on under 65's and say they won't give it to them, followed Macron sneering that it will have very little effect on the over 65's

Now, I suppose there is still a chance that they may be right, but several eminent scientists in this country and our regulatory authority disagree with them, and perhaps more important Europe's own medical regulatory authority also seems to think they are wrong.

Then comes the real killer. They threaten to invoke a part of the Northern Ireland protocol, section 16 (which I suspect was probably there in times of dire emergency), which restrict the free movement of medical vaccines and therefore go against the Belfast agreement which not long ago the EU seemed to regard as sacrosanct.

Worse than this they don't even appear to have consulted their own member state who are directly involved. Ireland would have been particularly affected if it had got to the stage where the UK decided to take reprisals and invoked section 16 themselves on some other goods.


Even worse they then seem to try to ay it was a "bureaucratic mistake" when such a decision should surely be taken at the very highest level of the commission i.e by Ursula Von der Leyen and then only I would have though after consultation with all member states and certainly with Ireland.

Vindictive, bungling, bullying ,spiteful, inefficient, arrogant are all words with are apt here

I'm sure I have missed somethings they said as well bul
t let's not overegg the pudding

Finally by even suggesting that section 16 can be invoked at the drop of a hat, apparently without much discussion, they have may have made it easier for Britain to use or threaten to use it at some time in the future.

Other than that though they're doing quite well.

[Croesy Blue]

There is no denying this isn’t the best advert for brexit ever, it has been a complete cock up of massive proportions.

I still think in the long run remain at the time was the right decision but at least we’ve finally got something decent out of it.

I wonder if we’d have gone along with the EU vaccination plan if we were still in?

[xsnaggle]

There is no denying this isn’t the best advert for brexit ever, it has been a complete cock up of massive proportions.

I still think in the long run remain at the time was the right decision but at least we’ve finally got something decent out of it.

I wonder if we’d have gone along with the EU vaccination plan if we were still in?

I'm not sure we'd have had much choice. I know Germany did a separate deal with some company but they did it in secret and only 'admitted' to it when someone squealed (lol).
The one part of all of it that definitely did not surprise me was Macron slagging off the Astrazenica vaccine and the UK in General, but to be fair, most of that was for his own domestic audience, and so too much store should not be put by it.
After all he has an election coming up and blaming the UK for everything is a tried and tested vote winner for any would-be french President.

[Croesy Blue]

Hungary have gone alone so I’m not sure we wouldn’t have had a choice, but I assume we would have gone with it.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There is no point in telling slduge that.
The truth as I see it from his posts is that he wants it to be a shitstorm just to prove himself right. He has convinced himself of it and is determined that it will be so.
Which implies to me that he doesn't actually give a ashit about the country doing well, he wants it to fail so he can tell everyone he was right.

The truth , as you see it ?

Caligula a mate of yours is he ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'm not sure we'd have had much choice. I know Germany did a separate deal with some company but they did it in secret and only 'admitted' to it when someone squealed (lol).
The one part of all of it that definitely did not surprise me was Macron slagging off the Astrazenica vaccine and the UK in General, but to be fair, most of that was for his own domestic audience, and so too much store should not be put by it.
After all he has an election coming up and blaming the UK for everything is a tried and tested vote winner for any would-be french President.

Hes not xenophobic, honestly

[Elwood Blues]

Hungary have gone alone so I’m not sure we wouldn’t have had a choice, but I assume we would have gone with it.

I saw somewhere ( can't remember where as I have read various articles on this recently) that EU countries can order vaccines, but not from the firms who are part of the main EU vaccine contract)

So Hungary have ordered I think it was 2,000,000 of the Sputnik vaccine from Russia.

I suspect (but not certain) that we were able to go it alone as we were leaving. I think the EU asked us to join in rather than put pressure on us to join in as they would if we hade still been a full member. I know Germany and a couple of other countries were thinking of going it alone but then a decision was made (not sure if by the Commission or by the 27 leaders) that there would be one EU contract for every one (with the exception mentioned above)

[Elwood Blues]

Other than that though they're doing quite well.

" Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the theatre"

[Vindec]

I saw somewhere ( can't remember where as I have read various articles on this recently) that EU countries can order vaccines, but not from the firms who are part of the main EU vaccine contract)

So Hungary have ordered I think it was 2,000,000 of the Sputnik vaccine from Russia.

I suspect (but not certain) that we were able to go it alone as we were leaving. I think the EU asked us to join in rather than put pressure on us to join in as they would if we hade still been a full member. I know Germany and a couple of other countries were thinking of going it alone but then a decision was made (not sure if by the Commission or by the 27 leaders) that there would be one EU contract for every one (with the exception mentioned above)

I think Germany and the Netherlands had decided to go it alone and even had contracts for the supply of vaccines which they then had to cancel under pressure from the EU. There followed a series of arguments between the more prosperous companies in the EU and the smaller countries who didn't want the EU to invest in manufacturing plants that would only benefit the EU countries that were the most wealthy. By the time the arguments ceased the EU were months behind the UK in signing contracts.

Sadly this is one of the perennial problems of the EU where there are endless arguments caused by self interest.

[xsnaggle]

Hes not xenophobic, honestly

xenophobia has nothing to do witth the man's post or my response. It's an idiotic comment, but given your apparent distain for everything British it's not surprising.

Or do you really honestly hope that Brexit will be a success?