Songs Of Praise

[splott parker]

Pleased to see you've got over the appendicitis and back with both barrels.

God bless the NHS, for some in this thread, or well done Clem & Nye for others

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

if science is saving the lives of people with terrible diseases or injuries , is that science , or God controlling science ?

If a child dies despite the work of doctors is that the fault of the doctors or the fault of god ?

Is God let off if the child dies but takes the praise from Christians if the child lives ? Its a miracle down to gods work etc ?

He dies .....oh god can't help everyone !

Christians cannot answer these questions as they expose them to having to come forward with facts to prove the existence of god

When they can't come up with any they resort to oh well I have my faith

And thats OK, everyone , as long as it doesn't hurt others , is entitled to believe what they want

But if someone is going to say that god has put off their wedding three times because of covid and thats what god wanted for them then they are clearly very deluded and possibly need counselling as god has therefore not just put off their wedding 3 times , he's allowed covid to kill doctors and nurses in their hundreds trying to treat people during this pandemic .

[Jordi Culé]

Agreed, very sloppy

I’ve genuinely had to ‘google’ ‘Lamb of God’.

Illustrates my lack of knowledge about God stuff. I should’ve paid more attention in Sunday School, instead of thieving Fruit Salads and Black Jacks from their Tuck shop.

[lisvaneblue]

I'm playing devil's advocate and acting like I believe in God, so we can argue from the same viewpoint.

My problem with your logic is clear. You believe in God. God is ultimate. God can therefore prevent innocent children from having things like leukemia (since it's his design).

Since he didn't prevent it when he created our DNA, then it's by choice. God doesn't make mistakes.

There's my logic.

My actual belief is that nobody is to blame and flaws in biology and (cough) evolution (cough) causes these things to happen.

The difference is that I don't believe that God created mankind, unlike you, so I'm struggling with the fact that you have blamed mankind for things they have no control of (such as preventing children having leukemia) but God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children.

OK Lets leave it there. Just for the record there are about 700 new cases of leukaemia in children in UK annually. Of these about 90% will survive and go on to continue a normal life. It does not result in painful deaths of millions of children ( thank God)

[goats]

What about the dinosaurs.

They didn’t exist for god squad did they?
A load of made up stories from 3000 years ago, we all know the church ruled by fear and persecution not that long ago, imagine how things were when the book was written. Whatever makes you happy though and believing seems to work for some, if you believe you are off to heaven and some afterlife dream existence then good on you....see you there....do they have Guinness?

[Heisenberg]

OK Lets leave it there. Just for the record there are about 700 new cases of leukaemia in children in UK annually. Of these about 90% will survive and go on to continue a normal life. It does not result in painful deaths of millions of children ( thank God)

1. Fine, we can leave it there but only in the knowledge that it's because you have failed to provide an answer to a question I've been asking since this morning and have moved the goalposts several times instead. I can live with you not being able to answer a simple question about the logic of your beliefs if you can?

2. For the record, I said in that post: "God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children". I never said "deaths in the UK from leukaemia". I stand by the fact that millions of children have died painful deaths that a literal God could have prevented when he designed people in the first place.

Enjoy the rest of your evening

[lisvaneblue]

1. Fine, we can leave it there but only in the knowledge that it's because you have failed to provide an answer to a question I've been asking since this morning and have moved the goalposts several times instead. I can live with you not being able to answer a simple question about the logic of your beliefs if you can?

2. For the record, I said in that post: "God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children". I never said "deaths in the UK from leukaemia". I stand by the fact that millions of children have died painful deaths that a literal God could have prevented when he designed people in the first place.

Enjoy the rest of your evening

Thanks. For the record I have an answer but thought that it would lead to another long, but enjoyable, discussion leading nowhere

[Heisenberg]

Thanks. For the record I have an answer but thought that it would lead to another long, but enjoyable, discussion leading nowhere

I'd love to hear the answer even if it leads nowhere. The only reason we've hit a wall in this discussion is because you haven't given an answer other than "it is what it is".

It's up to you to decide if you want to engage further. I'm more than happy to keep it going.

[life on mars]

a couple on there , who had their wedding postponed due to covid but finally married , think it was gods work that eventually enabled them to marry , through their prayers

There is a god that is caring for us and looking after us

Surely if God was such a powerful and kind chap he would have stopped covid in the first place which never mind postponing this couples wedding 3 times , has killed 100000 people in the UK , including doctors and nurses and the vulnerable ?

There is no answer to this

Your post mustv have been sent from heaven , and like the loaves and fishes miracle ,this post it has gone on to feed thousands of words .

Bless you. 😇

[lardy]

OK Lets leave it there. Just for the record there are about 700 new cases of leukaemia in children in UK annually. Of these about 90% will survive and go on to continue a normal life. It does not result in painful deaths of millions of children ( thank God)

So mankind is doing something for children who are suffering. Thank God for that, thankfully he only waited for humans to be around for tens of thousands of years before gifting them science. He could have waited a lot longer.

[Croesy Blue]

I shared something with you about a friend of mine who devoted his short life to the church and you reply as if you are an insensitive pratt. Im sure you are a better person than that.

God should have zapped him better

[goats]

So mankind is doing something for children who are suffering. Thank God for that, thankfully he only waited for humans to be around for tens of thousands of years before gifting them science. He could have waited a lot longer.

I wonder why he lets all the natural disasters happen around the world, what is he trying to teach us there? Take the Boxing Day tsunami as one example in 2004, 250,000 people wiped out in a flash, almost took me too as I was just sitting in the beach chilling out......

[insider]

The biggest religious question for me is which is THE God.
As it seems to me its the one you are told to follow as a child by your parents and teachers as all other gods are false gods.
Handy that ain't it.

[RonnieBird]

1. Fine, we can leave it there but only in the knowledge that it's because you have failed to provide an answer to a question I've been asking since this morning and have moved the goalposts several times instead. I can live with you not being able to answer a simple question about the logic of your beliefs if you can?

2. For the record, I said in that post: "God remains blameless even though he supposedly has the power to do literally anything, including creating genetics which don't result in the painful deaths of millions of children". I never said "deaths in the UK from leukaemia". I stand by the fact that millions of children have died painful deaths that a literal God could have prevented when he designed people in the first place.

Enjoy the rest of your evening

I try hard not to stray from football on this forum, but I'll make an exception for the sake of the strong Christian heritage of the club and those Christians who were its core supporters in the past.

You must have an incredibly high opinion of yourself and mankind generally if you imagine that you are in a better position than God to prioritise such matters Heisenberg, or indeed to understand the complexities of life, death and the workings of the universe.
In saying this, I don't wish to attack you, but rather invite you to make a more intelligent , objectve and realistic assesment of these complicated matters, which may well benefit you personally .

[Croesy Blue]

I try hard not to stray from football on this forum, but I'll make an exception for the sake of the strong Christian heritage of the club and those Christians who were its core supporters in the past.

You must have an incredibly high opinion of yourself and mankind generally if you imagine that you are in a better position than God to prioritise such matters Heisenberg, or indeed to understand the complexities of life, death and the workings of the universe.
In saying this, I don't wish to attack you, but rather invite you to make a more intelligent , objectve and realistic assesment of these complicated matters, which may well benefit you personally .

This **** is proof there is no god

[Taunton Blue Genie]

The biggest religious question for me is which is THE God.
As it seems to me its the one you are told to follow as a child by your parents and teachers as all other gods are false gods.
Handy that ain't it.

Why do you assume that just one deity applies? Many religions have multiple gods.

[RonnieBird]

Why do you assume that just one deity applies? Many religions have multiple gods.

As evinced by your own avatar, which represents a Jinn ,( plural jinni in Arabic) , which as I imagine you know are held by Moslems to be ,(broadly),the equivalent of demons, and sub deities, confuse and deceive humans.

Considering that the thread is about Songs of Praise, which purports at least to be based in the Christian religion,( though it wouldn't surprise me if it now seeks to be inclusive of other philosophies ), how does that relate to the multifarious often primative 'religions' with multiple idols ?

The bottom line is that free will exists and we must all make choices by which we shall stand or fall. It is not , according to Thomas Aquinas, a matter which is capable of proof to humans since most humans lack the ability to understand the proofs when offered and indeed he goes on to say that this is the reason why the majority of humans need Faith.

In any case, I'd go further and suggest that the subject matter is so very very far beyond the understanding of any human that it is perfectly preposterous for any human man to attempt to form logical conclusions. What is left then is the alternative between a degree of Faith and total ,hopeless ignorance.

[goats]

As evinced by your own avatar, which represents a Jinn ,( plural jinni in Arabic) , which as I imagine you know are held by Moslems to be ,(broadly),the equivalent of demons, and sub deities, confuse and deceive humans.

Considering that the thread is about Songs of Praise, which purports at least to be based in the Christian religion,( though it wouldn't surprise me if it now seeks to be inclusive of other philosophies ), how does that relate to the multifarious often primative 'religions' with multiple idols ?

The bottom line is that free will exists and we must all make choices by which we shall stand or fall. It is not , according to Thomas Aquinas, a matter which is capable of proof to humans since most humans lack the ability to understand the proofs when offered and indeed he goes on to say that this is the reason why the majority of humans need Faith.

In any case, I'd go further and suggest that the subject matter is so very very far beyond the understanding of any human that it is perfectly preposterous for any human man to attempt to form logical conclusions. What is left then is the alternative between a degree of Faith and total ,hopeless ignorance.

I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

[jon1959]

I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

I think he's saying we have a choice between blind superstition and 'total hopeless ignorance'. Yes folks, that's the choice!

Although it looks like there is a third choice of 'pompous, patronising bullshittery'.

[Jordi Culé]

I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

Obviously, neither does he.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I think he's saying we have a choice between blind superstition and 'total hopeless ignorance'. Yes folks, that's the choice!

Although it looks like there is a third choice of 'pompous, patronising bullshittery'.

But Thomas Aquinas said in the 13th century that we need faith because mere mortals couldn't hope to rationalise our creation.

There'll be all hell (?) let loose in the darker recesses of East Anglia when they find out what this Darwin bloke has been spouting after his exotic holidays to the New World. They'll probably round up a few suspected witches and burn them just to make sense of it all and to keep the faith.

[Tuerto]

I haven’t got a clue what any of this means

I read it, i have no idea what it all means, although i have developed a twitch since reading it. Is that a sign?

[lisvaneblue]

This **** is proof there is no god

That,s a very strong statement Crosby, what,s your thinking and evidence on this?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

As evinced by your own avatar, which represents a Jinn ,( plural jinni in Arabic) , which as I imagine you know are held by Moslems to be ,(broadly),the equivalent of demons, and sub deities, confuse and deceive humans.

Considering that the thread is about Songs of Praise, which purports at least to be based in the Christian religion,( though it wouldn't surprise me if it now seeks to be inclusive of other philosophies ), how does that relate to the multifarious often primative 'religions' with multiple idols ?

The bottom line is that free will exists and we must all make choices by which we shall stand or fall. It is not , according to Thomas Aquinas, a matter which is capable of proof to humans since most humans lack the ability to understand the proofs when offered and indeed he goes on to say that this is the reason why the majority of humans need Faith.

In any case, I'd go further and suggest that the subject matter is so very very far beyond the understanding of any human that it is perfectly preposterous for any human man to attempt to form logical conclusions. What is left then is the alternative between a degree of Faith and total ,hopeless ignorance.

Yes, I know about the concept of jinni and this time last year I spent some time being educated about the subject in Morocco.

As for your lack of appreciation as to why the subject of 'God' and gods are mentioned in the same thread don't worry about it. I'm sure some people see the obvious connection.

As for the subject about religion being beyond the understanding of any 'human man' I beg to differ and very strongly indeed.
Most religions are folklore built on preceding religions and there are so many strands that provide us with a very good audit trail. Most people in this world who are believers just take the religious flavour that they were indoctrinated in and religions travel along the same pathways as language e.g. speakers of Latin languages around the world tend not only to be believers in the Abrahamist god but also to the Papal flavour. It's just a cultural influence determined where one was raised in time and place and very few believers have an understanding how their so-called holy books were compiled, by whom, how they were edited, re-edited and the de-selections through time (as well as the fact that many of the stories were filched from elsewhere).
Most religions were established when the average person had very little understanding of the world in the way of science (a.k.a. knowledge) and the stories filled that gap and served as encouragement, a supposed moral code to adhere to, a comfort blanket and a threat of being denied a place in paradise if not adhered to.
Religions are absolutely fascinating as a subject and as part of studying humanity but to imagine that any particular deity is more than a figment of people's imagination and a product of indoctrination is twaddle.
The Abrahamist god is a relative newcomer to the scene but if you live in a country that was once occupied by the Romans or in a country that was once occupied by an Empire that itself had been occupied by the Romans it is likely that you will consider the Abrahamist god as 'God'. Considering that Homo Sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years the Abrahamist god is rather late to the party and the majority of mankind who have ever lived never had any exposure to it and they believed in other belief systems.
Tis just down to conditioning and cultural influence. Find out what someone's mother tongue is/was in any time in history and, you have a damn good chance of guessing what flavour of religion they either belong to or were raised in.
Free will, it ain't.

[lisvaneblue]

.

if science is saving the lives of people with terrible diseases or injuries , is that science , or God controlling science ?

If a child dies despite the work of doctors is that the fault of the doctors or the fault of god ?

Is God let off if the child dies but takes the praise from Christians if the child lives ? Its a miracle down to gods work etc ?

He dies .....oh god can't help everyone !

Christians cannot answer these questions as they expose them to having to come forward with facts to prove the existence of god

When they can't come up with any they resort to oh well I have my faith

And thats OK, everyone , as long as it doesn't hurt others , is entitled to believe what they want

But if someone is going to say that god has put off their wedding three times because of covid and thats what god wanted for them then they are clearly very deluded and possibly need counselling as god has therefore not just put off their wedding 3 times , he's allowed covid to kill doctors and nurses in their hundreds trying to treat people during this pandemic .

[/B]

How has God allowed Covid to kill doctors and nurses. That’s an
untrue and surprisingly ignorant comment