Songs Of Praise

[Croesy Blue]

.[/B]

How has God allowed Covid to kill doctors and nurses. That’s an
untrue and surprisingly ignorant comment

He’s omnipotent and omnipresent he could stop it.

Either he allowed it to happen or he isn’t omnipotent.

[Croesy Blue]

That,s a very strong statement Crosby, what,s your thinking and evidence on this?

The fact that ronniebird exists is my proof.

[goats]

I read it, i have no idea what it all means, although i have developed a twitch since reading it. Is that a sign?

It’s a calling from above.....

[UNDERHILL1927]

He’s omnipotent and omnipresent he could stop it.

Either he allowed it to happen or he isn’t omnipotent.

He's only all powerful for the good things. Honestly the way Christians bury their heads in the sand makes me laugh. Always have an argument to maintain their facard. I'm just glad I got out when I did otherwise I'd be as indoctrinated as they are.

[The Bloop]

Google has picked up that I'm reading this thread and I'm now getting adverts for a book entitled 'Where is the church that Jesus built 2000 years ago?'

[lisvaneblue]

He’s omnipotent and omnipresent he could stop it.

Either he allowed it to happen or he isn’t omnipotent.

I’ll remember that when my wife moans as I change tv channels to watch the bluebirds tonight, because God allowed it happen. And if we win no comments about team skills or good tactics by MM, it’s because God allowed it happen.

[life on mars]

I’ll remember that when my wife moans as I change tv channels to watch the bluebirds tonight, because God allowed it happen. And if we win no comments about team skills or good tactics by MM, it’s because God allowed it happen.

Well if Moore scores another then yes God did indeed intervene in the guise of a god like centre forward who is indeed walking on water.

[splott parker]

Well if Moore scores another then yes God did indeed intervene in the guise of a god like centre forward who is indeed walking on water.

Lent starts tomorrow, hope Kieffer isn’t thinking of giving up scoring

[RonnieBird]

Yes, I know about the concept of jinni and this time last year I spent some time being educated about the subject in Morocco.

As for your lack of appreciation as to why the subject of 'God' and gods are mentioned in the same thread don't worry about it. I'm sure some people see the obvious connection.

As for the subject about religion being beyond the understanding of any 'human man' I beg to differ and very strongly indeed.
Most religions are folklore built on preceding religions and there are so many strands that provide us with a very good audit trail. Most people in this world who are believers just take the religious flavour that they were indoctrinated in and religions travel along the same pathways as language e.g. speakers of Latin languages around the world tend not only to be believers in the Abrahamist god but also to the Papal flavour. It's just a cultural influence determined where one was raised in time and place and very few believers have an understanding how their so-called holy books were compiled, by whom, how they were edited, re-edited and the de-selections through time (as well as the fact that many of the stories were filched from elsewhere).
Most religions were established when the average person had very little understanding of the world in the way of science (a.k.a. knowledge) and the stories filled that gap and served as encouragement, a supposed moral code to adhere to, a comfort blanket and a threat of being denied a place in paradise if not adhered to.
Religions are absolutely fascinating as a subject and as part of studying humanity but to imagine that any particular deity is more than a figment of people's imagination and a product of indoctrination is twaddle.
The Abrahamist god is a relative newcomer to the scene but if you live in a country that was once occupied by the Romans or in a country that was once occupied by an Empire that itself had been occupied by the Romans it is likely that you will consider the Abrahamist god as 'God'. Considering that Homo Sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years the Abrahamist god is rather late to the party and the majority of mankind who have ever lived never had any exposure to it and they believed in other belief systems.
Tis just down to conditioning and cultural influence. Find out what someone's mother tongue is/was in any time in history and, you have a damn good chance of guessing what flavour of religion they either belong to or were raised in.
Free will, it ain't.

You clearly feel very strongly about all this, which proves that without God there could be no atheists, and that atheism is a kind of religion itself.
The reality is that you are no more capable of scientifically proving that God doesn't exist than I am of proving scientifically that He does. Therefore both beliefs require faith, albeit opposite versions of faith.

It seems to me that given this choice between a philosophy of hope and one of hopelessness , that anyone would choose the latter. In fact I somewhat doubt that such a choice is quite as independant or objective as its followers might imagine.
Thing is that if you were ever to be proven correct , all you would have proven is that desolation is our only fate or destiny , which I would imagine must be a dissapointing "victory".
If victory it is ,then it's not a victory for you or for humanity is it ? Victory for something I expect !

Yet, free will it certainly is, and you demonstrate it by excersising it in the views you have expressed. Up to you in short, and although I'd be pleased for you if you reconsidered the subject , I'm not angry with you or annoyed that you disagree with me. I can only offer you a suggestion to rethink these matters .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The fact that there are so many gods out there to worship proves to me its all cobblers

I respect the way the aborigines , red indians and South American rain forest tribes looked after the land and were and are very spiritual people is something that has always interested me . I can dig that

But some right wing idiot in America or a Conservative voter over here going to church every Sunday yet supporting the power of the marketplace over poverty and health provision ?

Its irony on a base level

I man if I was God and theresa may or Anne Widdecombe, both raving Bible bathers turned up at the gates I would say you feckers stripped back the welfare state and left loads of people struggling ......you are going straight to hell

A worrying amount of conservatives both here and in the states are bible bashers

Let's cut the pay of the nurses ! .........its gods will

Fruit loops

[life on mars]

Lent starts tomorrow, hope Kieffer isn’t thinking of giving up scoring

Low and behold he doth appear, and send his beloved angels Vaulks and Wilson to deliver his divine greatness and cast aside those Lutonnesse with two fell swoops.

[NYCBlue]

If God created us in his image, he must be a bit of a ****.

I don't like him.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You clearly feel very strongly about all this, which proves that without God there could be no atheists, and that atheism is a kind of religion itself.
The reality is that you are no more capable of scientifically proving that God doesn't exist than I am of proving scientifically that He does. Therefore both beliefs require faith, albeit opposite versions of faith.

It seems to me that given this choice between a philosophy of hope and one of hopelessness , that anyone would choose the latter. In fact I somewhat doubt that such a choice is quite as independant or objective as its followers might imagine.
Thing is that if you were ever to be proven correct , all you would have proven is that desolation is our only fate or destiny , which I would imagine must be a dissapointing "victory".
If victory it is ,then it's not a victory for you or for humanity is it ? Victory for something I expect !

Yet, free will it certainly is, and you demonstrate it by excersising it in the views you have expressed. Up to you in short, and although I'd be pleased for you if you reconsidered the subject , I'm not angry with you or annoyed that you disagree with me. I can only offer you a suggestion to rethink these matters .

I can't disprove the existence of fairies, Shiva and goblins and the boogie man don't exist but that doesn't mean that every deity ever worshipped existed until they are disproven - and the argument that atheism has some sort of equivalence with a religious belief system is errant nonsense. The fact that you refer to a singular god and 'He' suggests that you seem to have, unsurprisingly considering your cultural background (English speaker and European) bought into the Abrahamist god and without disproving all the alternative deities - and many of the stories that involve your Abrahamist god existed in previous religions.

I regularly travel the world (and a lot of that time off the beaten track) and have spent time visiting religious locations of all description and finding out about more about various belief systems. I've spent time visiting Indian temples, Shinto shrines, Buddhist temples, the Wailing Wall, native American kivas, Taoist temples, the Temple Mount, Icelandic spiritual locations, mosques, cathedrals, The Golden Temple of Amritsar, Greek Orthodox churches, Native American kivas, Aztec Culture, Bethlehem and Jerusalem and a myriad of pagan sites around the world.

I have made some effort to learn about about animism, Native American religious fetishes, Roman gods, Sun gods, voodoo, Brahma, Hinduism, Greek gods, jinni, religious petroglyphs, animism and a lot else. I also couchsurf in order to get to know local people - and I have stayed with people of various religions.

All the above doesn't make me the world's expert in the field of religion across this globe of ours but I may have a made a bit more effort in studying the phenomenon of religion than those who, very predictably and extremely parochially, believe in the first belief system that is passed onto them by their immediate environment and who usually consider all other belief systems and deities to be false and for non-believers to be deluded/self-deluded/ill-informed/stupid/illogical/adhering to an alternative type of religion or merely unfortunate.

As a kid I used to imagine sitting on the moon and looking down on this planet and its people in order to develop an overview of Mankind - and I still have that attitude and perspective. For me, the opposite of that overview is to have the very blinkered approach of shoe-horning your understanding of the world into the one belief system that is foisted upon you.

Equivalence it ain't and if you were born in a different time and/or place most believers would, no doubt, be equally dogmatic in buying into a totally different deity/set of deities altogether.

Thanks but I'll keep my blinkers off.

[Baloo]

It seems to me that given this choice between a philosophy of hope and one of hopelessness , that anyone would choose the latter. In fact I somewhat doubt that such a choice is quite as independant or objective as its followers might imagine.
Thing is that if you were ever to be proven correct , all you would have proven is that desolation is our only fate or destiny , which I would imagine must be a dissapointing "victory".
If victory it is ,then it's not a victory for you or for humanity is it ? Victory for something I expect !

It’s entirely possible to believe we’re mortal and live a hopeful, meaningful life. Humanism, for example, centres around making the most of the one life we have. That’s not a philosophy of hopelessness - it’s positive, optimistic and brave.

[Croesy Blue]

I don't understand why not believing in god would be a philosphy of hopelessness.

Also if there was a god wouldn't it be unlikely that he would agree with organised religion, wouldn't it be more likely he would be vastly more intelligent and understanding than all of mankind and the idea of going to a cold building to sing about him on a sunday be ridiculous.

[delmbox]

Interesting thread this, surprised that no one's mentioned the ol' paedo/priest conundrum yet though

[Croesy Blue]

Interesting thread this, surprised that no one's mentioned the ol' paedo/priest conundrum yet though

All part of God's plan I think

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I hated being dragged to church every Sunday

I remember lining up for communion thinking this is all nonsense

Me and my mate would sit at the back of the church whilst Mass was going on and talk about fishing or women. When I was 14 I said to my old dear I want to go fishing on a Sunday morning . I got a leathering but the next Sunday my old man took me down the river . I have been in churches since for weddings and funerals but I hate the places .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

All part of God's plan I think

Sex offenders are always going to put themselves in positions where they have access to vulnerable people , in this case , young children .

So its priests , vicars , youth club workers , kids football team managers , scouts leaders etc

My church priest was always pissed to be fair

[Heisenberg]

Interesting thread this, surprised that no one's mentioned the ol' paedo/priest conundrum yet though

There's no point. The answer will be "God gave mankind free will and therefore men are to blame for such awful atrocities..blah, blah, blah"

It's an easy get out clause for them which is why I asked about children having diseases which are certifiably not man-made. Only 'God' could have decided that these would exist so he is responsible for creating these diseases and allowing innocent children to have them, suffer from them and potentially die from them.

The only way that it isn't God's fault for things like leukemia is if they blame evolution for f**king up our DNA, which, ya'know, ain't going to happen.

[delmbox]

Sex offenders are always going to put themselves in positions where they have access to vulnerable people , in this case , young children .

So its priests , vicars , youth club workers , kids football team managers , scouts leaders etc

My church priest was always pissed to be fair

I'm just saying that if I was omnipotent, had created everything and everyone etc and there was widespread touching of kids going on in my name, I wouldn't be all mysterious and hands off about it

[Croesy Blue]

As far as I can see it either god isn’t omnipotent or he’s pro pedo pro leukaemia

[RonnieBird]

I don't understand why not believing in god would be a philosphy of hopelessness.

Also if there was a god wouldn't it be unlikely that he would agree with organised religion, wouldn't it be more likely he would be vastly more intelligent and understanding than all of mankind and the idea of going to a cold building to sing about him on a sunday be ridiculous.

This relies upon the idea that a man knows or understands what and how God thinks.

[Croesy Blue]

What’s the point of the bible if not to convey that

[RonnieBird]

I can't disprove the existence of fairies, Shiva and goblins and the boogie man don't exist but that doesn't mean that every deity ever worshipped existed until they are disproven - and the argument that atheism has some sort of equivalence with a religious belief system is errant nonsense. The fact that you refer to a singular god and 'He' suggests that you seem to have, unsurprisingly considering your cultural background (English speaker and European) bought into the Abrahamist god and without disproving all the alternative deities - and many of the stories that involve your Abrahamist god existed in previous religions.

I regularly travel the world (and a lot of that time off the beaten track) and have spent time visiting religious locations of all description and finding out about more about various belief systems. I've spent time visiting Indian temples, Shinto shrines, Buddhist temples, the Wailing Wall, native American kivas, Taoist temples, the Temple Mount, Icelandic spiritual locations, mosques, cathedrals, The Golden Temple of Amritsar, Greek Orthodox churches, Native American kivas, Aztec Culture, Bethlehem and Jerusalem and a myriad of pagan sites around the world.

I have made some effort to learn about about animism, Native American religious fetishes, Roman gods, Sun gods, voodoo, Brahma, Hinduism, Greek gods, jinni, religious petroglyphs, animism and a lot else. I also couchsurf in order to get to know local people - and I have stayed with people of various religions.

All the above doesn't make me the world's expert in the field of religion across this globe of ours but I may have a made a bit more effort in studying the phenomenon of religion than those who, very predictably and extremely parochially, believe in the first belief system that is passed onto them by their immediate environment and who usually consider all other belief systems and deities to be false and for non-believers to be deluded/self-deluded/ill-informed/stupid/illogical/adhering to an alternative type of religion or merely unfortunate.

As a kid I used to imagine sitting on the moon and looking down on this planet and its people in order to develop an overview of Mankind - and I still have that attitude and perspective. For me, the opposite of that overview is to have the very blinkered approach of shoe-horning your understanding of the world into the one belief system that is foisted upon you.

Equivalence it ain't and if you were born in a different time and/or place most believers would, no doubt, be equally dogmatic in buying into a totally different deity/set of deities altogether.

Thanks but I'll keep my blinkers off.

Perhaps you are coming to this from the wrong end, looking for a spiritual conclusion from physical data.
If there are many mistaken attempts at something ,does that mean that the thing itself is impossible or not worth further effort ?

I could give the example of manned flight for example. There were innumerable different attempts and complicated ideas about it over millennia which were all wrong , yet in the end a simple principle which had somehow been missed by all of them proved effective and enabled you to visit all these exotic locations.

It's quite possible to approach this subject from an intellectual starting point, but it's not for everyone and it's very complicated, so this is probably not the place to do it. Be that as it may, it does fly in the face of your suggestion that people simply accept the first thing they are told and believe it. Very very many highly intelligent people have unexpectedly and often reluctantly come to the incontravertable certainty of God by considering alternative possibilities.

I hope that you become one of them.