Lent starts tomorrow, hope Kieffer isn’t thinking of giving up scoringOriginally Posted by life on mars
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Lent starts tomorrow, hope Kieffer isn’t thinking of giving up scoring
The fact that there are so many gods out there to worship proves to me its all cobblers
I respect the way the aborigines , red indians and South American rain forest tribes looked after the land and were and are very spiritual people is something that has always interested me . I can dig that
But some right wing idiot in America or a Conservative voter over here going to church every Sunday yet supporting the power of the marketplace over poverty and health provision ?
Its irony on a base level
I man if I was God and theresa may or Anne Widdecombe, both raving Bible bathers turned up at the gates I would say you feckers stripped back the welfare state and left loads of people struggling ......you are going straight to hell
A worrying amount of conservatives both here and in the states are bible bashers
Let's cut the pay of the nurses ! .........its gods will
Fruit loops
Low and behold he doth appear, and send his beloved angels Vaulks and Wilson to deliver his divine greatness and cast aside those Lutonnesse with two fell swoops.Lent starts tomorrow, hope Kieffer isn’t thinking of giving up scoring
If God created us in his image, he must be a bit of a ****.
I don't like him.
I don't understand why not believing in god would be a philosphy of hopelessness.
Also if there was a god wouldn't it be unlikely that he would agree with organised religion, wouldn't it be more likely he would be vastly more intelligent and understanding than all of mankind and the idea of going to a cold building to sing about him on a sunday be ridiculous.
This relies upon the idea that a man knows or understands what and how God thinks.
Interesting thread this, surprised that no one's mentioned the ol' paedo/priest conundrum yet though
All part of God's plan I think
I hated being dragged to church every Sunday
I remember lining up for communion thinking this is all nonsense
Me and my mate would sit at the back of the church whilst Mass was going on and talk about fishing or women. When I was 14 I said to my old dear I want to go fishing on a Sunday morning . I got a leathering but the next Sunday my old man took me down the river . I have been in churches since for weddings and funerals but I hate the places .
Sex offenders are always going to put themselves in positions where they have access to vulnerable people , in this case , young children .
So its priests , vicars , youth club workers , kids football team managers , scouts leaders etc
My church priest was always pissed to be fair
I'm just saying that if I was omnipotent, had created everything and everyone etc and there was widespread touching of kids going on in my name, I wouldn't be all mysterious and hands off about it
There's no point. The answer will be "God gave mankind free will and therefore men are to blame for such awful atrocities..blah, blah, blah"
It's an easy get out clause for them which is why I asked about children having diseases which are certifiably not man-made. Only 'God' could have decided that these would exist so he is responsible for creating these diseases and allowing innocent children to have them, suffer from them and potentially die from them.
The only way that it isn't God's fault for things like leukemia is if they blame evolution for f**king up our DNA, which, ya'know, ain't going to happen.
As far as I can see it either god isn’t omnipotent or he’s pro pedo pro leukaemia
What’s the point of the bible if not to convey that
If God is the creator , is all powerful , everywhere and benevolent , forgiving , loving and kind then he's got to be responsible for ensuring kids don't die of cancer and if he can't do it he should surely ensure that mankind can do it through medicine
Christians want it both ways
God is all powerful and everywhere. If someone survives a car crash its because the family asked God to save the person by praying or God gave the doctors the knowledge through his power , to treat the person .
If the person dies its either mankind's fault , somebody has sinned or God has decided he wants to take that person into his place called heaven
A get out clause for everything
So basically God is a winner whichever way you look at it if you are a Christian . They simply will not accept analytical thought .
On a Sunday morning nicky Campbell, a Christian, presents the big question . Its all about religion basically and usually has someone from the Catholic, protestant , Anglican, Muslim, Jewish Hindu etc faith sitting down debating some nonsense and a scientist like Dawkins or his kind of enlightened sort trying to put em straight
It normally starts OK but within no time he will have them on the ropes and the tired old arguments and excuses will come out to justify their beliefs , none of them based on facts
The usual one is ........Jesus told us in the bible that ........some silly story about some such event which has no basis in fact
Or Mohammed told us this or did that ......again clearly complete fantasy
Whereas a scientist will prove to us that if we mix chemical a with chemical b it will produce chemical c which will be great for cleaning out drains but if you drink it , it will burn your throat out .........no maybe , no possibly .........a fact
The Jesus myth has been around for 2000 years
Its a fact and has been proved by carbon dating that dinosaurs 🦕 ruled the earth long before that. You would have thought they would have got a mention in the bible
But maybe that was God being a cheeky chappie again 🤔
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5169255]I
The Jesus myth has been around for 2000 years
/QUOTE]
This statement alone ensures that I will not be taking any further part in this debate! Sorry, Sludge.
The vast majority of educated people such as scientists , doctors , biologists etc consider the facts and these people don't go to church or believe in God
Poor people , in poor countries such as Brazil seem to cling to religion with a desperate , blind faith
Of course there are educated people who follow the word of the Lord but the balance shifts generally as you move up the ladder
Humanism wins every time
If there is a god and you try to live a good life , he will let you in to heaven
If he doesn't then he's not really a very nice bloke and best avoided
and if there isn't you've lived a good life as a good person
[QUOTE=Gofer Blue;5169269]No problem
The bible , which is a series of writing sometimes hundreds of years after this Jesus bloke died on the cross , is give or take about 2000 years old now
Nothing that is written in the bible has proved to be a fact
But 2000 years after the death , or apparent death , of someone called Jesus, who its never been proven actually existed ...I think he was probably a hippy anarchist type bloke who was kind .........people still live their lives on this Bible
Considering we have been here a long long time as a species as has the planet and we have science , education and progress I think its worrying that people put their faith in a bloke who existed 2000 years ago . And that's just one bloke and his old man .
What about the person who invented the first vaccine against covid ? Shouldn't we be praising him or her ?
Or did God do that ?
Or the person who invented the processed , preserved food shipped to the starving in Africa, saving millions of lives
Or did God do that ?
If he's that powerful why didn't he stop the drought in the first place in Ethiopia that led to the famine in the first place ?
Christians have an excuse for everything and an answer for nothing
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5169289]Interesting debate and your views and those of Heisenberg is proof indeed that humans have the free will that God graced us with. Your comments about Jesus surprise me as your birth is measured by the days and years since his birth. A person that was so insignificant, according to you, that the world counts time by him.
Whether you believe in God or not the immense order and interdependence of species on earth indicates that it came about by more that chance chaos.
Personally I believe that God created heaven and earth and all things visible and invisible. In his creation is the blueprint for everything. There are some certainties, ...'from ash we came and to ash we will return', and that applies to all life.
I have a good mate a very famous scientist. He was the first person to discover a drug to successfully treat what was, not so long ago, a disease that killed a lot of people. Did he discover something 'new' in the sense that it didn't exist before? No, it was there in God's blueprint and he found out how to use it to help mankind. You could say the same about science and Covid vaccines
I mention balance and interdependence in life and the comments you and others have made questioning why God did not get rid of Covid, or save ill children, or feed the hungry. It's hard to take but how can he? The answers are in our hands not his. Divine intervention might be the answer you want to hear but there will be consequences in changing the blueprint of nature We see it ourselves in what we do to this planet, be it climate change, or war, or insecticides killing bees and affecting plant pollination..we are screwing up the blueprint that keeps everything in balance.
And finally there is the assumption that God has it all his own way as long as it's good. Sounds a bit dramatic but there are good and evil forces in this world and they compete for supremacy. There are the same forces in every human being and we only need to look through a newspaper of history book to see for ourselves.
But, for sure God is there to support you if you ask him and he will never turn his back on you, even if you turn your back on him
N[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5169305]You make the mistake of referring to natural selection as chance chaos. It is not. Darwin’s great work has nothing to do with chance and subsequent discoveries ( Crick and Watson and DNA ) have proved conclusively that there is no longer a debate worth having between creationism and evolution. Membership of the Flat Earth Society has also been dwindling in recent times and the Catholic Church issued a grovelling apology some time ago to Galileo for suggesting the Earth went round the sun and not vice versa.
You also make the mistake of stating that we are endowed with free will. This is as big a delusion as belief in God. We are merely products of luck and decisions that we may make are determined by myriads of factors that impose upon us. Try telling the child born with an incurable congenital disease that it has free will.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God. Remember that where you are born will, in most cases, determine which God you follow be it Allah, Jehovah, Shiva, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha and the thousands of Gods prevalent in all corners of the Earth. This is obviously not a matter of free will but engineered by man. It is all made up just like the lunatic conception of original sin and redemption.
A question I'd be interested in hearing an answer to is this, "if God created everything how did the devil get created then"? A fallen angel but surely if God created everything he would have made it perfectly?!
One of the many questions I've wanted to ask for years but logical questions were a no no in a strict religious household.
[QUOTE=pomeroy;5169312]NCrick did not prove conclusively in the way you say. Crick said that Darwin's work coupled with Gregor Mendel work indicated how life was created. Mendel was a Christian and an Abbott at a priory in , I think, Germany.
[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5169398]Crick and Watson filled in the gaps in Darwin’s work and established conclusively the concept of hereditary genetics by science based experimentation. I suggest reading Dawkins’ “ The Selfish Gene”. Mendel’s great work was largely ignored due to hysteria about Darwin.
He was indeed a monk in Germany.
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