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Thread: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

  1. #21

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    The thing is, you have been critical over quite a long period of time of the teams ability and standard of coaching. So therefore it is not a surprise to me that after an admittedly bad passing game like yesterday, you rather sarcastically raise the questions that you do in your post. This totally ignores the fact that for the previous 8 games under McCarthy the standard of our general play, including, pressing, passing and movement, has improved quite considerably and the end product has also improved greatly with 19 goals in the last 9 games and we are actually now second top scorers in the division. To pick on the team performance yesterday, in what was overall a poor game from both sides, is very unfair and to suggest that the manager would be instructing the players to deliberately pass to the opposition as a tactic, is ridiculous. McCarthy has to deal with the players at his disposal - Wilson is one of the best passers in the division, Hoilett, Vaulks, Ralls and NG are good on their day but the fact is that most of the remainder are not renowned for their passing ability overall and have other strengths such as tackling, heading and work rate. That doesn't make them bad players but to expect the manager to be suddenly able to turn them all into a passer like Bruno Fernandes or Lionel Messi is totally unrealistic.
    There's a strange tendency on this messageboard to accuse anyone who wants us to pass the ball a little bit more of wanting us to play "tiki taka" or expecting world class play. None of us expect that, we'd just like a little bit more of the game on the floor and less head tennis

    These are professional footballers paid thousands of pounds a week, they should be able to find a teammate

  2. #22

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Perhaps you should read the original post and heading. It clearly suggests this could be the case.
    No, it does not. Specifically, it says "is MM telling our players - especially the back 3 - to just kick it anywhere so long as it goes upfield".

    The heading is: "Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?"

    There is no mention or suggestion of the players being told to deliberately pass to the opposition. You made that up.

  3. #23

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    No, it does not. Specifically, it says "is MM telling our players - especially the back 3 - to just kick it anywhere so long as it goes upfield".

    The heading is: "Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?"

    There is no mention or suggestion of the players being told to deliberately pass to the opposition. You made that up.
    If I could interject. You are correct, I never implied that. Would MM prefer those 60 yard punts up the field go to another City player ? I can't think why not, so it's just confirmation that our back 3 especially are unable to play a long ball out of defence. Will Vaulks said you 'don't have to play the ball from the back', and he's right, but lately we don't seem to be able to even get to the point where we can get crosses into the box. Let's see what happens tonight.

  4. #24

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Be interesting to read the posts after the 9 game unbeaten run ends

  5. #25

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Be interesting to read the posts after the 9 game unbeaten run ends
    The same thing occured to me too, only let's take it a step further.

    "Fans clamour for McCarthy's head as Cardiff's unbeaten 20 match run comes to an end".

    If I jinx us for tonight I apologise in advance !

  6. #26

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    A thank you to the poster known on here as Steve the Tea who posted this on my blog recently about the Middlesbrough game;-

    "One staggering fact I unearthed was that in the first period we had just a 33% passing accuracy. In the second half it rose to 51% making a figure of 42% for the whole match. Middlesbrough’s passing accuracy during the game was approximately 50% better than our figure at 66%."

    To put those figures in some sort of context, here's the Championship's passing stats for each team throughout the season;-

    https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...ship-2020-2021

    What this shows is that Saturday was not typical of us - we may have some of the poorest figures in the division, but our 42 per cent against Middlesbrough would leave us a long way adrift at the bottom of the table if was our normal figure. So, I think it's fair to say our figures on Saturday were shockingly bad and I suppose the big question is could this be put down solely to tiredness? My view is that it can't,

    Our position in the passing accuracy and completion tables tells us that it would be daft to expect there to be any real improvement in those figures for the rest of the season and I would say it excuses Mick McCarthy from too much criticism for them because there's little he can do about improving them for now - given the rapid turnover of games, there's not much he can do about it in training either. However, we really do need to make Middlesbrough a one off because I don't see how a top six challenge can be maintained if we see too much of such low figures in the future.

  7. #27

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    My biggest criticism of our team and mainly of our defenders is how easily they give the ball away.

    Hopeful balls are played down the line. Whilst I understand that I don't necessarily like it except when it works.
    When defending our penalty area under pressure the ball is too often played out to the opposing side.
    But for me the worst situation is when the defenders with space and time try to pick a pass and it goes to the the opposition and the worst culprits are the Centre backs who will often play a ball from midway in our half forward to mid way in the opposing half, often to Moore who is running towards it to receive it. On many occasions the pass is mis directed and when it does go to feet there is little that can be done with it. The guys have got to be brave and savvy enough to move forward with the ball and to better execute the pass .

  8. #28

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    A thank you to the poster known on here as Steve the Tea who posted this on my blog recently about the Middlesbrough game;-

    "One staggering fact I unearthed was that in the first period we had just a 33% passing accuracy. In the second half it rose to 51% making a figure of 42% for the whole match. Middlesbrough’s passing accuracy during the game was approximately 50% better than our figure at 66%."

    To put those figures in some sort of context, here's the Championship's passing stats for each team throughout the season;-

    https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...ship-2020-2021

    What this shows is that Saturday was not typical of us - we may have some of the poorest figures in the division, but our 42 per cent against Middlesbrough would leave us a long way adrift at the bottom of the table if was our normal figure. So, I think it's fair to say our figures on Saturday were shockingly bad and I suppose the big question is could this be put down solely to tiredness? My view is that it can't,

    Our position in the passing accuracy and completion tables tells us that it would be daft to expect there to be any real improvement in those figures for the rest of the season and I would say it excuses Mick McCarthy from too much criticism for them because there's little he can do about improving them for now - given the rapid turnover of games, there's not much he can do about it in training either. However, we really do need to make Middlesbrough a one off because I don't see how a top six challenge can be maintained if we see too much of such low figures in the future.
    I agree. Tiredness, fatigue, seems to have taken it's toll perhaps, but sitting watching the games on my laptop when Flint & Co thump a long ball out of defence, I wait in anticipation for the camera to catch up and see who's the recipient. Usually it's a patch of grass.

  9. #29

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    It does beg the question, would you prefer a Dave Jones nearly-men team that plays thrilling football on occasions or a big, strong Stoke-esque side that lack the niceties but achieve relative success.

    Of course the answer is somewhere in between but is that possible with this group of players ? Have they got the ability individually and/or collectively to adopt a fluent passing game ?

    In the short term the answer to my last question is I suspect a resounding no. As for long term, well it's over to you Mick (probably !).

  10. #30

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    It does beg the question, would you prefer a Dave Jones nearly-men team that plays thrilling football on occasions or a big, strong Stoke-esque side that lack the niceties but achieve relative success.

    Of course the answer is somewhere in between but is that possible with this group of players ? Have they got the ability individually and/or collectively to adopt a fluent passing game ?

    In the short term the answer to my last question is I suspect a resounding no. As for long term, well it's over to you Mick (probably !).
    The Dave Jones' sides would probably have been the best equipped to improve upon in the PL, but as you say we flattered to deceive at times. Warnock's promotion side was probably the closest to getting the right balance, and but for a point or two would have stayed up..

  11. #31

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    The Dave Jones' sides would probably have been the best equipped to improve upon in the PL, but as you say we flattered to deceive at times. Warnock's promotion side was probably the closest to getting the right balance, and but for a point or two would have stayed up..
    From what we've been told recently in different podcasts that side failed because of a lack of professionalism including a shocking attitude to pre-season training. We played relatively well each year which suggests we weren't the only side in Championship with lax attitudes but, assuming premier league was already more advanced, that edition of City would have been beaten badly if had managed promotion. Next time someone is interviewing Hudson or Purse they should ask why no one knocked some heads together until Bellamy arrived?

    Warnock with a slightly more forward thinking coaching staff would probably have had the best bet - we conceded so many goals that year because he refused to adjust to the better quality of opposition.

  12. #32

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    From what we've been told recently in different podcasts that side failed because of a lack of professionalism including a shocking attitude to pre-season training. We played relatively well each year which suggests we weren't the only side in Championship with lax attitudes but, assuming premier league was already more advanced, that edition of City would have been beaten badly if had managed promotion. Next time someone is interviewing Hudson or Purse they should ask why no one knocked some heads together until Bellamy arrived?

    Warnock with a slightly more forward thinking coaching staff would probably have had the best bet - we conceded so many goals that year because he refused to adjust to the better quality of opposition.
    From what I've been told Dave Jones wasn't exactly 'hands on'. Except perhaps a five iron.

  13. #33

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    One thing discussions like this brings to mind for me is how big a player was Aron Gunnarsson for us? I used to watch him in his latter days with us and think he wasn’t contributing that much, but it strikes me that we’ve never really replaced him.

  14. #34

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    One thing discussions like this brings to mind for me is how big a player was Aron Gunnarsson for us? I used to watch him in his latter days with us and think he wasn’t contributing that much, but it strikes me that we’ve never really replaced him.
    We've never replaced Gunnarsson. He was a fantastic player at this level who was under appreciated for much of his time here.

  15. #35

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    We've never replaced Gunnarsson. He was a fantastic player at this level who was under appreciated for much of his time here.
    Much appreciated, as was his Mrs.

  16. #36

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    We've never replaced Gunnarsson. He was a fantastic player at this level who was under appreciated for much of his time here.
    Agree with that.

  17. #37

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    If I could interject. You are correct, I never implied that. Would MM prefer those 60 yard punts up the field go to another City player ? I can't think why not, so it's just confirmation that our back 3 especially are unable to play a long ball out of defence. Will Vaulks said you 'don't have to play the ball from the back', and he's right, but lately we don't seem to be able to even get to the point where we can get crosses into the box. Let's see what happens tonight.
    OK. So it seems there must have been some tactical element to it. Last night the difference was startling - I even recall Morrison and Flint running past Derby defenders way up the pitch ..

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