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Thread: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

  1. #1

    Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    As someone who has supported my club for over 60 years it goes against the grain to lay criticism at the door of a side that has gone on a tremendous run of form lately, yet our passing is so poor and almost universal, that I actually wonder if it is a bad as we're seeing it, or is MM telling our players - especially the back 3 - to just kick it anywhere so long as it goes upfield.
    I can't imagine a scenario where passing to a colleague could be counter-productive, but then I'm not privy to the grand plan..

  2. #2

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    As someone who has supported my club for over 60 years it goes against the grain to lay criticism at the door of a side that has gone on a tremendous run of form lately, yet our passing is so poor and almost universal, that I actually wonder if it is a bad as we're seeing it, or is MM telling our players - especially the back 3 - to just kick it anywhere so long as it goes upfield.
    I can't imagine a scenario where passing to a colleague could be counter-productive, but then I'm not privy to the grand plan..
    I'm sure Nelson and Flint are told either to find an easy pass or kick it long but Morrison seems to be trusted to play a bit more.

  3. #3

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    It's probably a bit of both.

    Our defenders aren't great at passing (or heading) the ball to a team mate so often end up making a clearance (our hoofball tag stems from this) and it doesn't appear there is any coaching of them to improve this aspect of the game; it's all about distance and height.

    This inability to make a simple clearance to a team mate is often why we have so little of the ball and it so often comes straight back at us. Yesterday was a classic example of almost all clearances going straight to a Boro player and at times we were penned in despite the defenders having 5 targets ahead of them to aim for.

  4. #4

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    As someone who has supported my club for over 60 years it goes against the grain to lay criticism at the door of a side that has gone on a tremendous run of form lately, yet our passing is so poor and almost universal, that I actually wonder if it is a bad as we're seeing it, or is MM telling our players - especially the back 3 - to just kick it anywhere so long as it goes upfield.
    I can't imagine a scenario where passing to a colleague could be counter-productive, but then I'm not privy to the grand plan..
    That's exactly how I think, how can it possibly benefit any side to "pass" the ball like we did for most of yesterday's game - it's akin to telling your strikers to just smash the ball as hard as they can when they get a shooting chance!

    The commentator on the feed I watched yesterday's match on said during the game that Neil Warnock had been saying that Johnny Howson is the best midfield player he's worked with as a manager. Now, Howson is a good player, who has spent all of his long career playing in the top two divisions with a fair bit of it in the Premier League, but when a manager who has taken charge of around 1.500 games with plenty of experience of taking charge of matches in the Premier League and Championship singles him out as the best he's worked with in his position, you really have to wonder what Warnock looks for in a central midfielder and I would suggest that the ability to pass the ball accurately to a team mate ranks fairly low on his list of priorities.

    I honestly don't get the thinking at City when it comes to what I've always thought was a very important part of the game - Warnock said that he only signed Will Vaulks because Marlon Pack wasn't available and then when Pack became available, he barely gave Vaulks a look in - this suggests that he thinks Pack and Vaulks are similar type players, but are they really? I don't see it myself.

    I've often found myself wondering the same as you - are our players told not to place too much emphasis on passing the ball accurately and just concentrate on knocking it into particular areas instead (not sure ten rows back into the stand running the length of the pitch would qualify as one of them, but, based on yesterday, perhaps it might!)?

  5. #5

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The commentator on the feed I watched yesterday's match on said during the game that Neil Warnock had been saying that Johnny Howson is the best midfield player he's worked with as a manager.
    Neil Warnock also said that Sol Bamba's a better defender than Virgil van Dijk.

    Neil Warnock regularly talks about players, referees, supporters, etc, being either the best or the worst he's ever seen during his career, depending on where he is at that particular point in time.

    Basically, Neil Warnock talks a lot. And talks a lot of shit.

  6. #6

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    As someone who has supported my club for over 60 years it goes against the grain to lay criticism at the door of a side that has gone on a tremendous run of form lately, yet our passing is so poor and almost universal, that I actually wonder if it is a bad as we're seeing it, or is MM telling our players - especially the back 3 - to just kick it anywhere so long as it goes upfield.
    I can't imagine a scenario where passing to a colleague could be counter-productive, but then I'm not privy to the grand plan..
    The thing is, you have been critical over quite a long period of time of the teams ability and standard of coaching. So therefore it is not a surprise to me that after an admittedly bad passing game like yesterday, you rather sarcastically raise the questions that you do in your post. This totally ignores the fact that for the previous 8 games under McCarthy the standard of our general play, including, pressing, passing and movement, has improved quite considerably and the end product has also improved greatly with 19 goals in the last 9 games and we are actually now second top scorers in the division. To pick on the team performance yesterday, in what was overall a poor game from both sides, is very unfair and to suggest that the manager would be instructing the players to deliberately pass to the opposition as a tactic, is ridiculous. McCarthy has to deal with the players at his disposal - Wilson is one of the best passers in the division, Hoilett, Vaulks, Ralls and NG are good on their day but the fact is that most of the remainder are not renowned for their passing ability overall and have other strengths such as tackling, heading and work rate. That doesn't make them bad players but to expect the manager to be suddenly able to turn them all into a passer like Bruno Fernandes or Lionel Messi is totally unrealistic.

  7. #7

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    The thing is, you have been critical over quite a long period of time of the teams ability and standard of coaching. So therefore it is not a surprise to me that after an admittedly bad passing game like yesterday, you rather sarcastically raise the questions that you do in your post. This totally ignores the fact that for the previous 8 games under McCarthy the standard of our general play, including, pressing, passing and movement, has improved quite considerably and the end product has also improved greatly with 19 goals in the last 9 games and we are actually now second top scorers in the division. To pick on the team performance yesterday, in what was overall a poor game from both sides, is very unfair and to suggest that the manager would be instructing the players to deliberately pass to the opposition as a tactic, is ridiculous. McCarthy has to deal with the players at his disposal - Wilson is one of the best passers in the division, Hoilett, Vaulks, Ralls and NG are good on their day but the fact is that most of the remainder are not renowned for their passing ability overall and have other strengths such as tackling, heading and work rate. That doesn't make them bad players but to expect the manager to be suddenly able to turn them all into a passer like Bruno Fernandes or Lionel Messi is totally unrealistic.
    Pack is a much better passer of the ball than Vaulks.

  8. #8

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Neil Warnock also said that Sol Bamba's a better defender than Virgil van Dijk.

    Neil Warnock regularly talks about players, referees, supporters, etc, being either the best or the worst he's ever seen during his career, depending on where he is at that particular point in time.

    Basically, Neil Warnock talks a lot. And talks a lot of shit.
    That last line sums it up.

  9. #9

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    There's no reason we can't pass more, it has to be with purpose but we should keep more of the ball. If we had done so for even slightly longer periods yesterday we may have snuck the win.

    League 2 teams keep the ball better, my Sunday league team do at times. They are championship level players and are more than capable.

    Sometimes they just get sucked into the lazy option, particularly when knackered which for me they definitely were yesterday.

  10. #10

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Remind me how many points we have gathered in February .

  11. #11

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Passing has improved since MM took over, but given the intensity and significance of the games recently, you've cut to cut the team some slack, not least because of the number of points accrued in such a short period of time.

    If however yesterday's performance becomes the norm, fans would be justified in questioning the tactics employed by the coaching staff and the player's ability to pass the ball and retain possession.

    For now, let's enjoy the team's newly-found resolve and steely determination to keep picking up points, regardless how unattractive the style of football may appear at times.

  12. #12

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    The thing is, you have been critical over quite a long period of time of the teams ability and standard of coaching. So therefore it is not a surprise to me that after an admittedly bad passing game like yesterday, you rather sarcastically raise the questions that you do in your post. This totally ignores the fact that for the previous 8 games under McCarthy the standard of our general play, including, pressing, passing and movement, has improved quite considerably and the end product has also improved greatly with 19 goals in the last 9 games and we are actually now second top scorers in the division. To pick on the team performance yesterday, in what was overall a poor game from both sides, is very unfair and to suggest that the manager would be instructing the players to deliberately pass to the opposition as a tactic, is ridiculous. McCarthy has to deal with the players at his disposal - Wilson is one of the best passers in the division, Hoilett, Vaulks, Ralls and NG are good on their day but the fact is that most of the remainder are not renowned for their passing ability overall and have other strengths such as tackling, heading and work rate. That doesn't make them bad players but to expect the manager to be suddenly able to turn them all into a passer like Bruno Fernandes or Lionel Messi is totally unrealistic.
    Passing is probably the most basic of all football requirements - to to be able to pass the ball to another player in your side. Without passing a game would just be the ball going back and fore between two sets of players. My post had an element of sarcasm, but it was serious - [I think TOBW understood]. To put it another way, if our back 3, plus Vaulks and Bacuna could find another City shirt once in a while would it improve the side ? It's probably a rhetorical question because I think most would say yes.

  13. #13

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Pack is a much better passer of the ball than Vaulks.
    That's open to debate, as is my comment that Pack struggles in possession. He's very slow and indecisive.

  14. #14

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    The thing is, you have been critical over quite a long period of time of the teams ability and standard of coaching. So therefore it is not a surprise to me that after an admittedly bad passing game like yesterday, you rather sarcastically raise the questions that you do in your post. This totally ignores the fact that for the previous 8 games under McCarthy the standard of our general play, including, pressing, passing and movement, has improved quite considerably and the end product has also improved greatly with 19 goals in the last 9 games and we are actually now second top scorers in the division. To pick on the team performance yesterday, in what was overall a poor game from both sides, is very unfair and to suggest that the manager would be instructing the players to deliberately pass to the opposition as a tactic, is ridiculous. McCarthy has to deal with the players at his disposal - Wilson is one of the best passers in the division, Hoilett, Vaulks, Ralls and NG are good on their day but the fact is that most of the remainder are not renowned for their passing ability overall and have other strengths such as tackling, heading and work rate. That doesn't make them bad players but to expect the manager to be suddenly able to turn them all into a passer like Bruno Fernandes or Lionel Messi is totally unrealistic.
    You are the only person in this thread so far to have said this. You're right about it being ridiculous though.

  15. #15

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    We have been a poor passing team for so long but I hope that as a natural progression MM will strive to improve this part of our game before too long.

    So far, he has changed the set up of the team by playing a back 3 successfully. He has energised players that had been under-performing for the previous manager and before the game on Saturday had players pressing the opposition all over the pitch.

    He's canny enough to know that aimless passing will ultimately undo all the good work he's done so far and I'd be more than surprised to learn that he considered ball retention and passing accuracy to be of no importance going forward.

    If he is rewarded with an extended contract and given some funds to strengthen the team next season, let's hope ball playing midfielders feature high on his priority list.

  16. #16

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Newcastle spent 35m on a forward who can't score. So we can all sit and criticise the recruitment all we want (and i have done) but we've decreased average age and improved the floor of the squad. Sheff Utd were never going to stay up numerous years this time round.

    The game is to incrementally improve. Add saleable assets to trade on. Improve floor and general quality of squad so when you do come back you don't rebuild whilst in PL but just try to add 2/3 1st 11 ready players. Ultimately we haven't been good enough in all areas....

    Recruitment included in that. We likely needed to go with more 1st team ready hardened players but at risk of comitting long contracts to older players. Club is in much netter shape asset wise than it was when we arrived in PL.

    https://twitter.com/Blades_analytic/...97776338960388
    Thought it was interesting to add this to a thread raising lack of football ability while looking at a side who are coming down from premier league (Sheffield United) and what their fans are saying. We didn't spend as big as Newcastle but was there any way Warnock improved the floor and quality of the squad either with the premier league money or the parachute payments? Is that why we're seeing this particular tactic now? Arguably the type of player he was looking at was good but then really struggled to adjust his tactics to reflect the better quality we had.

  17. #17

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Neil Warnock also said that Sol Bamba's a better defender than Virgil van Dijk.

    Neil Warnock regularly talks about players, referees, supporters, etc, being either the best or the worst he's ever seen during his career, depending on where he is at that particular point in time.

    Basically, Neil Warnock talks a lot. And talks a lot of shit.

    Exactly and it's all for the greater good of Neil Warnock

  18. #18

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Saturday’s game was a reality check: for all the great results we’ve had lately, this squad has a long way to go before it can be considered worthy of promotion and standing a cat in hell’s chance of passing muster in the Premier League.
    Wales Online have an interesting article today, resurrecting the rumours of signing Jordan Rhodes, who it seems McCarthy would prefer over Glatzel.

  19. #19

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    Saturday’s game was a reality check: for all the great results we’ve had lately, this squad has a long way to go before it can be considered worthy of promotion and standing a cat in hell’s chance of passing muster in the Premier League.
    Wales Online have an interesting article today, resurrecting the rumours of signing Jordan Rhodes, who it seems McCarthy would prefer over Glatzel.
    To be fair to the team, they were running on empty after the Bournemouth game, so whilst I agree we have a way to go before we can be considered a team worthy of promotion, I don't for one minute think that the performance at Middlesbrough was a reality check.

    Our game as we know is based on pressing the opposition and fighting for every ball. This is the Mick McCarthy way. It was inevitable that having worked so hard to improve our league position, there would come a time when we would hit a wall. But we still came away with a very useful point. Having plunged down the league before MM was appointed, anything we achieve this season is a bonus

  20. #20

    Re: Is 'not passing to another team member' a tactic, or evidence of a lack of football ability ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    You are the only person in this thread so far to have said this. You're right about it being ridiculous though.
    Perhaps you should read the original post and heading. It clearly suggests this could be the case.

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