The Budget

[Optimistic Nick]

I think its cobblers , hardly anyone in the NHS votes tory

This bloke has found five

Naa

Your view of the world, and the way it's population is divided up, is so fixed. It's quite odd. Northerners are decent; people in the south east are capitalist pigs; scaffolders support west ham; nobody in x part of London supports Y club etc. Now we have doctors aren't Tories? Come on. All doctors and nurses were medical students once. In my uni at least, it is hard to imagine a more nailed-on group of obnoxious tim-nice-but-dim Tories. I've written up a list of NHS workers I know. At least half are Tories, one of them even stood as a local councillor.

[xsnaggle]

OK, as long as you're sure what you're describing isn't just common old confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias? What the f*** is that? This getting boring now.

[xsnaggle]

In today's very polarised society it clearly says a great deal about the type of person you are. You've only got to look at this board to see the proof of that. For example, I could go through the list of names of people who have contributed to this thread and been about 90 per cent accurate as to what side of the political divide they belong in, it's the same way with something like Covid and, in many cases, the links they put on here.

I don't find that society is very polarised today, certainly no more than any other time. If it were so polarised all those erstwhile Labour seats would never have fallen to the tories because the polarised voters would never have changed their allegiance. Thats not to say that opinons on here aren't polarised!

[Baloo]

Confirmation bias? What the f*** is that? This getting boring now.

You probably wouldn't believe it if I told you

[A Quiet Monkfish]

In today's very polarised society it clearly says a great deal about the type of person you are. You've only got to look at this board to see the proof of that. For example, I could go through the list of names of people who have contributed to this thread and been about 90 per cent accurate as to what side of the political divide they belong in, it's the same way with something like Covid and, in many cases, the links they put on here.

Oh dear, so sorry. Perhaps this board should just be for the left-leaning Guardian readers. Oh what fun you'll have looking down your noses at the rest..

[xsnaggle]

You probably wouldn't believe it if I told you

[chris lee]

Your view of the world, and the way it's population is divided up, is so fixed. It's quite odd. Northerners are decent; people in the south east are capitalist pigs; scaffolders support west ham; nobody in x part of London supports Y club etc. Now we have doctors aren't Tories? Come on. All doctors and nurses were medical students once. In my uni at least, it is hard to imagine a more nailed-on group of obnoxious tim-nice-but-dim Tories. I've written up a list of NHS workers I know. At least half are Tories, one of them even stood as a local councillor.

I would like to support this, the Believe that the NHS is in the vast majority anti tory is nonsense.

61% of Doctors are privately educated (BBC, 2016)

In response to sludge all I can do is provide my personal knowledge, My mother is a nurse in Bridgend and my sister is a nurse in Porthcawl.
I am employed by the NHS (administrative role)

The three of us are Conservative voters, I would describe our politics as fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and you may regard us stupid for believing this, but we all genuinely believe Boris is doing a good job in representing our political persuasion of being right of center.
I would like to suggest that the budget and financial packages over the last year, from our current government are evidence of this, being a moderate/conservative government, hence vindicating our vote

I Honestly, and genuinely believe that there is not large support or a secret motive to privatise the NHS, it is an easy slur to throw around, the rhetoric is as old as you and me, and evidence suggests it is completely fabricated.
To this day Labour have done more in the way of privatising healthcare than any other party.

It is not popular to say this, but in Bridgend alone I can write down the name of 20 nurses I know personally who vote conservative, (and I don't know a whole lot more than those 20!) and I also have spent significant time in a local GP practice, and know for a fact that Brexit was largely supported by the staff as a whole, from the receptionists to the Doctors.

The point in all this, I believe one can believe in the politics of aspiration and conscious capitalism while supporting a world beating nationalised health service.

[life on mars]

I would like to support this, the Believe that the NHS is in the vast majority anti tory is nonsense.

61% of Doctors are privately educated (BBC, 2016)

In response to sludge all I can do is provide my personal knowledge, My mother is a nurse in Bridgend and my sister is a nurse in Porthcawl.
I am employed by the NHS (administrative role)

The three of us are Conservative voters, I would describe our politics as fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and you may regard us stupid for believing this, but we all genuinely believe Boris is doing a good job in representing our political persuasion of being right of center.
I would like to suggest that the budget and financial packages over the last year, from our current government are evidence of this, being a moderate/conservative government, hence vindicating our vote

I Honestly, and genuinely believe that there is not large support or a secret motive to privatise the NHS, it is an easy slur to throw around, the rhetoric is as old as you and me, and evidence suggests it is completely fabricated.
To this day Labour have done more in the way of privatising healthcare than any other party.

It is not popular to say this, but in Bridgend alone I can write down the name of 20 nurses I know personally who vote conservative, (and I don't know a whole lot more than those 20!) and I also have spent significant time in a local GP practice, and know for a fact that Brexit was largely supported by the staff as a whole, from the receptionists to the Doctors.

The point in all this, I believe one can believe in the politics of aspiration and conscious capitalism while supporting a world beating nationalised health service.

They shouldn't be ashamed of a different a democratic view .

[life on mars]

By using "one or the other" you're showing your true colours whereby, going by what you post on here, you are constantly critical of one of them and constantly supportive of the other - of course people are judged by their political choices, because it points fundamentally to who you are.

Really ,why personalise it , all you have to say I dont agree the quote was about others ,its always seems a default on here to suppress the debate.

I've simply expressed a view about"one or others " , the one doesn't specifically mean me , if someone uses the term "one" it can mean other people ?

I suspect the usual pack of friends will descend soon usual put down and derogatory terminology .

[the other bob wilson]

Oh dear, so sorry. Perhaps this board should just be for the left-leaning Guardian readers. Oh what fun you'll have looking down your noses at the rest..

You’re doing exactly the same thing that you accuse me of doing there.

[life on mars]

You’re doing exactly the same thing that you accuse me of doing there.

One : Both pronouns—“one” and “you”—are what can be called indefinite, impersonal, or generic pronouns

[Eric Cartman]

The three of us are Conservative voters, I would describe our politics as fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and you may regard us stupid for believing this, but we all genuinely believe Boris is doing a good job in representing our political persuasion of being right of center.

I can't place Boris, political compass has his campaign in 2019 pegged as authoritarian and economically very far to the right, not convinced about that myself but I am certainly struggling with the idea that he is centre right though. Seems like a humdrum mix of left wing sympathetic populist economic policy, mixed with the great British pastime of benefit bashing whilst floating a cabinet containing people with some obvious character flaws and dubious views.

I Honestly, and genuinely believe that there is not large support or a secret motive to privatise the NHS, it is an easy slur to throw around, the rhetoric is as old as you and me, and evidence suggests it is completely fabricated.
To this day Labour have done more in the way of privatising healthcare than any other party.

Forgive me but that is one of the more naive things I have read on this board. There definitely is a very non-secret motive/plot to privatise the NHS but thankfully it is the one thing that is nailed to the ground, right now it would be political suicide but never say never.

The point in all this, I believe one can believe in the politics of aspiration and conscious capitalism while supporting a world beating nationalised health service.

That is all well and good but would you hold your nose and carry on voting for them if they began to pivot towards 'the NHS is too expensive, there must be a better way...'?

[Baloo]

For what it's worth I thought it was an interesting question and found this research: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprin...%20Kingdom.pdf

According to this research in the 2017 general election of the 1295 doctors who responded 46.3% voted Labour, 19.7% voted Conservative, 16.9% Liberal Democrat, 3% Greens. Very strong 'Remain' leanings (76.6%). Still a relatively small sample but perhaps more representative than quoting family members, personal acquaintances etc. Make of it what you will.

[the other bob wilson]

Really ,why personalise it , all you have to say I dont agree the quote was about others ,its always seems a default on here to suppress the debate.

I've simply expressed a view about"one or others " , the one doesn't specifically mean me , if someone uses the term "one" it can mean other people ?

I suspect the usual pack of friends will descend soon usual put down and derogatory terminology .

You used “one or the other” in relation to political parties originally, so that’s what my answer was based on, now it seems you’re using it in relation to people - you talked about there being good in all parties, but, on here at least, you’ve never practiced what you preach there when it comes to one of those parties.

[the other bob wilson]

I would like to support this, the Believe that the NHS is in the vast majority anti tory is nonsense.

61% of Doctors are privately educated (BBC, 2016)

In response to sludge all I can do is provide my personal knowledge, My mother is a nurse in Bridgend and my sister is a nurse in Porthcawl.
I am employed by the NHS (administrative role)

The three of us are Conservative voters, I would describe our politics as fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and you may regard us stupid for believing this, but we all genuinely believe Boris is doing a good job in representing our political persuasion of being right of center.
I would like to suggest that the budget and financial packages over the last year, from our current government are evidence of this, being a moderate/conservative government, hence vindicating our vote

I Honestly, and genuinely believe that there is not large support or a secret motive to privatise the NHS, it is an easy slur to throw around, the rhetoric is as old as you and me, and evidence suggests it is completely fabricated.
To this day Labour have done more in the way of privatising healthcare than any other party.

It is not popular to say this, but in Bridgend alone I can write down the name of 20 nurses I know personally who vote conservative, (and I don't know a whole lot more than those 20!) and I also have spent significant time in a local GP practice, and know for a fact that Brexit was largely supported by the staff as a whole, from the receptionists to the Doctors.

The point in all this, I believe one can believe in the politics of aspiration and conscious capitalism while supporting a world beating nationalised health service.

So many people exist in echo chambers these days (I’d say I do myself I’m afraid), and you certainly sound like you do.

Also, why do you think that a private education = conservative voter? In my, admittedly, limited experience, they are just as likely to support another party.

[the other bob wilson]

One : Both pronouns—“one” and “you”—are what can be called indefinite, impersonal, or generic pronouns

[Baloo]

It's an eye-opener to me that people know how 20 of their work colleagues voted. I could hazard a guess in a few cases, but I don't even know for certain how close family members I don't live with any more voted. Having said that politics is a rare discussion point at work and home for me.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

You’re doing exactly the same thing that you accuse me of doing there.

Maybe, though I would say my comment was made with a touch of humour/irony, whereas yours came across as rather smug and supercilious.

[life on mars]

Maybe, though I would say my comment was made with a touch of humour/irony, whereas yours came across as rather smug and supercilious.

There's a lot of that about .

[chris lee]

For what it's worth I thought it was an interesting question and found this research: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprin...%20Kingdom.pdf

According to this research in the 2017 general election of the 1295 doctors who responded 46.3% voted Labour, 19.7% voted Conservative, 16.9% Liberal Democrat, 3% Greens. Very strong 'Remain' leanings (76.6%). Still a relatively small sample but perhaps more representative than quoting family members, personal acquaintances etc. Make of it what you will.

I think quoting family members and personal experience, is useful because it is the reality that shapes us and our opinions, for example, you have used stats to tell me that, my intuitions about the NHS staff are actually statistically incorrect, fair enough.

But your same statistics told us, that Bridged was a Labour stronghold, that Boris would not win by a large majority and that Remain would win the Brexit vote.

So when people act shocked and surprised that a Welsh working class town like Bridgend, would turn blue and vote leave and ask how did it happen, And I turn around and say well actually I know these people I work with them day to day in the NHS and while it may be surprising to you they are doctors and nurses.
and my family and friends who live in Bridgend have been telling me this for months before the election...
So while it is possible that my perceptions are off and I am in a echo chamber, but then how have my personal observations been proved correct and the stats and polls consistently incorrect.

[the other bob wilson]

Maybe, though I would say my comment was made with a touch of humour/irony, whereas yours came across as rather smug and supercilious.

Why? Are you seriously saying that you do not know beforehand what many of the posters on here are likely to say if they’re commenting on things like politics and Covid? It’s just as easy to predict what’s coming from from people on either side of the argument as soon as you see who has posted a message, that’s why I said that people are, increasingly it seems, defined by their politics.

To use myself as an example, when was the last time I said something on politics which surprised you?

[surge]

I was sure this thread was going to end when Sludge responded to everyone (including themselves) five times in a row but we're still going....

Nice to know that a socially liberal prime minister/government is one who makes it illegal for most adults (those not living together) to have sex for a year. Maybe this government is, this far, more center on economic scale compared to May and Cameron but socially more right wing?

P.s. I do enjoy seeing first post and where a thread has ended up on the last couple of pages. Who had Boris being accused of banning adults having sex in their prediction?

[Baloo]

I think quoting family members and personal experience, is useful because it is the reality that shapes us and our opinions, for example, you have used stats to tell me that, my intuitions about the NHS staff are actually statistically incorrect, fair enough.

But your same statistics told us, that Bridged was a Labour stronghold, that Boris would not win by a large majority and that Remain would win the Brexit vote.

So when people act shocked and surprised that a Welsh working class town like Bridgend, would turn blue and vote leave and ask how did it happen, And I turn around and say well actually I know these people I work with them day to day in the NHS and while it may be surprising to you they are doctors and nurses.
and my family and friends who live in Bridgend have been telling me this for months before the election...
So while it is possible that my perceptions are off and I am in a echo chamber, but then how have my personal observations been proved correct and the stats and polls consistently incorrect.

They're not my statistics I just looked them up out of interest whilst reading this thread. They are based on how people say they actually voted, not intent. It's still a small sample size though so could of course be some way off but just put it up as an alternative to personal anecdotes.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Really ,why personalise it , all you have to say I dont agree the quote was about others ,its always seems a default on here to suppress the debate.

I've simply expressed a view about"one or others " , the one doesn't specifically mean me , if someone uses the term "one" it can mean other people ?

I suspect the usual pack of friends will descend soon usual put down and derogatory terminology .

Regarding your explanation of your use of the word 'one':
As a pronoun it should stand in for the words 'a person' and your sentence was related to political parties.
Did you really want your sentence to be interpreted thus:

"Wow your family has really added wonderful value to our society. Your right its free society and you shouldn't be judged by your political choices there's good in each party and it doesn't make you evil if you chose between a person or the other ."

[Taunton Blue Genie]

you and I both know you were implying that I speak directly to scientists about things whereas you actually knew quite well what I meant in my post. That is why it was a stupid question.

So now you are telling me that I knew what you meant as opposed to what you actually wrote. Interesting.