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Thread: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

  1. #51

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?


  2. #52

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninian opinian View Post
    In the Daniel Sloss video I referenced earlier he supposed that if every single woman goes to the police there aren't enough police or courts to deal with the problem. Our court system in England and Wales is already fecked (with current government blaming covid and some pointing out problems have existed over the decade before that) so reducing violence full stop (where ever it's directed) would also help women get protection from most serious offenders. More men being arrested for fighting men to protect women isn't going to help either.

  3. #53

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What does that mean in practical terms though?

    It won't make enough of a difference to stop attacks on women entirely so it feels like we are entering a never ending cycle of the normalisation of blaming good men for the actions of bad men, which is unhealthy.
    So if something doesn’t stop something entirely you shouldn’t bother?

  4. #54

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    is the debate really about sexual harassment or has it moved on to blaming all men for the actions of a very small minority. We all have wives and sisters, girlfriends and daughters (and unless you're from Swansea, they are usually different people), and we all know they need to be vigilant when out and about because there are sociopaths out there. No one is saying they are on every street corner but in the same breathe no one wants to be a statistic. Moving on from that none of us expect that psychopath to be our friends, brothers, fathers or sons. No one knows who these people are until after it happens because this type of rage and contempt is usually kept quite latent and hidden.

    You're conflating two very different issues and I'd hazard a guess that stopping builders wolf whistling at women will have no affect whatsoever on individuals who decide they need to take a life.
    The post you responded to says that as men, we can help lessen the issue. It doesn’t blame us or all men.

    I admit that as a man, I have privilege and I could do more to help make society better. So I am gonna do more and try to be the change I wanna see. This, like many issues (although these issues are not related), can be helped via individual actions.

    You mention builders wolf whistling. That is intimidating and degrading women. That is harassment and creating an unequal society. The murder was an extreme incident but the debate, as I say again, is about sexual harassment in general.

  5. #55

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Does it? Makes a difference from blaming the victims then, eh?
    Victim blaming goes on but not every suggestion centred around prevention is 'victim blaming', everybody needs to aware of potential dangers and take precautions appropriate to their own personal risk tolerance. That isn't to say that society at the same time isn't trying to deal with these issues in other ways and it also isn't to say that it isn't a shame that people have to alter their behaviour to mitigate potentially dangerous circumstances but that applies to men as much as it does women.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    How many have spoken to their sons about bad behaviour as a preventative measure compared to how many speak to their daughters about being careful?
    That is probably a fair point but as a parent (I am not one), I would assume you see the best in your kids and are more likely to expect your daughter to be a victim than your son to be a rapist. In my opinion mothers are probably more likely to put their sons up on a pedestal than dads. If I was an asshole when I was younger my mum would have gone far further to defend me or justify my behaviour than my dad, I don't think she is an outlier.

    but earlier it was said men already challenge their friends who are acting like d*cks to which a number disagreed
    When I was at uni, a couple of my housemates were in an interesting situation with a girl, she clearly didn't want one of them involved, someone else in the house overheard (thin walls!) and we collectively put a stop to it. I think you are right that this would be considered 'cockblocking' and 'against the male code' by a minority but **** that, there was no real discussion, we all knew what was right. I don't think that is atypical behaviour at all and I think it is doing a disservice to men to suggest that we need to learn how to stop our friends assaulting women.

  6. #56

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    So if something doesn’t stop something entirely you shouldn’t bother?
    I didn't say that, can you tell me what I am meant to be doing to stop policemen kidnapping and murdering women and I will give it a try.

    Second part of my point is simple, this unhealthy discourse WILL embolden a counter culture and will in the end eventually be the downfall of any real attempt to address the issue, in essence the discussion/side-taking will become more important than the issue itself. We have all seen this happen many times before, for an example see 'white privilege', a clumsy phrase jumped upon by anybody wishing to block/limit real positive change in terms of equality.

  7. #57

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    In the Daniel Sloss video I referenced earlier he supposed that if every single woman goes to the police there aren't enough police or courts to deal with the problem. Our court system in England and Wales is already fecked (with current government blaming covid and some pointing out problems have existed over the decade before that) so reducing violence full stop (where ever it's directed) would also help women get protection from most serious offenders. More men being arrested for fighting men to protect women isn't going to help either.
    If you want to prevent crime you need to make sure people are likely to be caught and convicted, for these sorts of crimes the numbers don't look great. Our justice system is built around the idea that it is better for a guilty person to go free than it is for an innocent person to go to prison. Rape convictions are low because it's seemingly hard to prove (which makes sense really, unless you are a pretty shit rapist there are unlikely to be witnesses), if you want more convictions you probably have to accept that innocent people are a little bit more likely to go to prison.

  8. #58

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I didn't say that, can you tell me what I am meant to be doing to stop policemen kidnapping and murdering women and I will give it a try.

    Second part of my point is simple, this unhealthy discourse WILL embolden a counter culture and will in the end eventually be the downfall of any real attempt to address the issue, in essence the discussion/side-taking will become more important than the issue itself. We have all seen this happen many times before, for an example see 'white privilege', a clumsy phrase jumped upon by anybody wishing to block/limit real positive change in terms of equality.
    I am on twitter for a very specific purpose, certainly wouldn't choose to chat hot topics like this but I caught sight of a graphic which suggested that men were part of the problem if they touched a woman's back with their hand whilst navigating a busy bar. That is an example of this spilling over into the absolutely ridiculous and unfortunately that is the kind of nonsense that will get seized upon by those men who do overstep the mark and are looking to diminish the likelihood of actual positive change.

  9. #59

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I didn't say that, can you tell me what I am meant to be doing to stop policemen kidnapping and murdering women and I will give it a try.

    Second part of my point is simple, this unhealthy discourse WILL embolden a counter culture and will in the end eventually be the downfall of any real attempt to address the issue, in essence the discussion/side-taking will become more important than the issue itself. We have all seen this happen many times before, for an example see 'white privilege', a clumsy phrase jumped upon by anybody wishing to block/limit real positive change in terms of equality.
    For me, I think this explains what you were thinking with your earlier post much better. There is a risk of this happening but I felt your earlier post was saying we were already there with the discourse that has happened since, which I don't believe is the case.

    Despite what Feedback has tried to do, I don't think the conversation happening now is solely about the one incident representing one of the most extreme examples.

  10. #60

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I didn't say that, can you tell me what I am meant to be doing to stop policemen kidnapping and murdering women and I will give it a try.

    Second part of my point is simple, this unhealthy discourse WILL embolden a counter culture and will in the end eventually be the downfall of any real attempt to address the issue, in essence the discussion/side-taking will become more important than the issue itself. We have all seen this happen many times before, for an example see 'white privilege', a clumsy phrase jumped upon by anybody wishing to block/limit real positive change in terms of equality.
    Went down to Clapham Common with my Press ID - because that’s my job. The bandstand was surrounded on all sides by women - and a few men - fed up, exhausted, let down.

    Without question: this gathering at Clapham Common is less Covid safe, more angry and much more radical in terms of the voices dominating it, than if the Met had reached an agreement with #ReclaimTheseStreets for a marshalled events. (Instead, it is led by @SistersUncut)

    Lots of women early on did just as the Duchess of C did - come look at the flowers for a bit, make their point, move on. Then it got darker, then Sisters Uncut started leading speeches from the bandstand, then the police moved in. As you’ll have seen from plenty of footage by now

    Personal view: speech from the bandstand sounded a lot like contempt of court & will be especially if republished. People are understandably very angry about the suspect’s history in the police. But I worry tonight may be used by his lawyers to question the fairness of any trial

    I have also wondered a lot this week about how Sarah Everard’s family actually feel about all of this. They, and her personal friends, are grieving somewhere tonight.

    I’m as angry as any other woman, and as determined as any other feminist campaigner to Do Something. But Sarah Everard, the real person, doesn’t actually belong to any of us, you know?

    https://twitter.com/KateMaltby/statu...20967149281290
    Might be what you're talking about. Especially as several on twitter are saying the suspect committed the crime which obviously hasn't been determined yet.

  11. #61

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    haven't followed this story too much but seeing the so called left wing mob causing trouble at the so called silent vigil of Sarah Everard in Clapham common tonight on social media whats all that about ?

  12. #62

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    haven't followed this story too much but seeing the so called left wing mob causing trouble at the so called silent vigil of Sarah Everard in Clapham common tonight on social media whats all that about ?
    You tell us what it's about.

  13. #63

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    You tell us what it's about.
    not sure thats why i,m asking . i see the mayor of london are claiming the scenes in london are unacceptable

  14. #64
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    It's not as absolute as that though, is it? We have already seen in recent decades that changes in society can affect the behaviour of some people even if it is only be degree in some cases. I don't have any facts or statistics to back it up but I would imagine that violent punishment of children by parents has reduced since the sixties - and violence experienced as a child often leaves an imprint that itself may beget violence. In recent years I have assisted in an infants school (helping kids to read) and I have attended a college for evening classes - and just from the very prominent posters and notice boards in both it is obvious that children and young people are being taught to not be concerned about being different and to respect other children they come across who may be different in one way or another.
    I think it's all healthy stuff compared to the environment that many of us were brought up in during the sixties where some of us were beaten at home, caned at school and very rarely had a female boss. Bullying was also rife and, in my immediate circle of contacts, very often the worst proponents came from violent homes and/or those who felt like outsiders or inferior in some respects.
    It is becoming more unacceptable for males to be dominant in relationships and marriage, which also helps. (I have a friend who delivers courses on such subjects in the Solomon Islands where wife-beating is still very rife).
    Yes, some murderers will still murder and some rapists will rape - but to think that the only answer is punishment after the event is not something I could agree with.
    If I've understood your point you're saying that children have never had it so good e.g. no corporal punishment, more inclusion, less bullying. Yet despite all of that the incidents of violent crime and murder per million has increased since the 1960s.

    And FWIW, I'm not saying punishment is the only solution. My comment was around the likes of Peter Sutcliffe and this copper who, imho, are predisposed to commit these acts because they are narcissistic and lack empathy for their victims or wider society and don't really see what they are doing as being wrong.

  15. #65
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    The post you responded to says that as men, we can help lessen the issue. It doesn’t blame us or all men.
    when people claim that its a male problem, and if I don't accept that then i'm part of the problem, I can't see how that isn't saying the issue is all men.

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    I admit that as a man, I have privilege and I could do more to help make society better. So I am gonna do more and try to be the change I wanna see. This, like many issues (although these issues are not related), can be helped via individual actions.
    what is this privilege you speak of?

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    You mention builders wolf whistling. That is intimidating and degrading women. That is harassment and creating an unequal society. The murder was an extreme incident but the debate, as I say again, is about sexual harassment in general.
    is it intimidating and degrading? Are you speaking for all women here or only the women who dislike it. There are plenty of women who like the attention and don't see it as intimidating and degrading. But we're not allowed to consider them because that doesn't suit the narrative.

    you're making this about men v women and it should be about stopping violence in general. Are men more inclined to be violent - I don't think they are. I think its a matter of biology that men are stronger and fitter in general so in any given situation, the man is going to be more dominant and hold the upper hand. So it should come as no surprise that typically its more likely than not that violence between the sexes is more inclined to be male driven. But as a man, I'm not going to be held accountable for the actions of someone else, I can only call it out when I see it.

  16. #66
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    If you want to prevent crime you need to make sure people are likely to be caught and convicted, for these sorts of crimes the numbers don't look great. Our justice system is built around the idea that it is better for a guilty person to go free than it is for an innocent person to go to prison. Rape convictions are low because it's seemingly hard to prove (which makes sense really, unless you are a pretty shit rapist there are unlikely to be witnesses), if you want more convictions you probably have to accept that innocent people are a little bit more likely to go to prison.
    rape convictions are hard because its ultimately one persons word against another. That's not to say rape's don't happen, and conviction is not helped at all by the false claims made by women.

  17. #67
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Despite what Feedback has tried to do, I don't think the conversation happening now is solely about the one incident representing one of the most extreme examples.
    tell me, what have I tried to do?

  18. #68

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    when people claim that its a male problem, and if I don't accept that then i'm part of the problem, I can't see how that isn't saying the issue is all men.


    what is this privilege you speak of?

    is it intimidating and degrading? Are you speaking for all women here or only the women who dislike it. There are plenty of women who like the attention and don't see it as intimidating and degrading. But we're not allowed to consider them because that doesn't suit the narrative.

    you're making this about men v women and it should be about stopping violence in general. Are men more inclined to be violent - I don't think they are. I think its a matter of biology that men are stronger and fitter in general so in any given situation, the man is going to be more dominant and hold the upper hand. So it should come as no surprise that typically its more likely than not that violence between the sexes is more inclined to be male driven. But as a man, I'm not going to be held accountable for the actions of someone else, I can only call it out when I see it.
    You seem to state here that men are no more inclined to be violent and then provide a reason why they are.

  19. #69
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    You seem to state here that men are no more inclined to be violent and then provide a reason why they are.
    that's not what I said, its certainly not what I meant. whilst some men and women are inclined towards violent behaviours, the opportunity to act upon those impulses presents itself to the stronger sex more readily. That should come as no surprise.

  20. #70

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    haven't followed this story too much but seeing the so called left wing mob causing trouble at the so called silent vigil of Sarah Everard in Clapham common tonight on social media whats all that about ?
    Who has called them a left wing mob???

  21. #71

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    that's not what I said, its certainly not what I meant. whilst some men and women are inclined towards violent behaviours, the opportunity to act upon those impulses presents itself to the stronger sex more readily. That should come as no surprise.
    OK, but that’s at the centre of the issue being discussed isn’t it? If the ‘opportunity’ is no surprise, can anything be done?

  22. #72

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    when people claim that its a male problem, and if I don't accept that then i'm part of the problem, I can't see how that isn't saying the issue is all men.


    what is this privilege you speak of?

    is it intimidating and degrading? Are you speaking for all women here or only the women who dislike it. There are plenty of women who like the attention and don't see it as intimidating and degrading. But we're not allowed to consider them because that doesn't suit the narrative.

    you're making this about men v women and it should be about stopping violence in general. Are men more inclined to be violent - I don't think they are. I think its a matter of biology that men are stronger and fitter in general so in any given situation, the man is going to be more dominant and hold the upper hand. So it should come as no surprise that typically its more likely than not that violence between the sexes is more inclined to be male driven. But as a man, I'm not going to be held accountable for the actions of someone else, I can only call it out when I see it.
    So wolf whistling from builders shouldnt be discouraged as we should consider those that like it.😂😂😂😂😂

  23. #73
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    OK, but that’s at the centre of the issue being discussed isn’t it? If the ‘opportunity’ is no surprise, can anything be done?
    you're asking to undo millions of years of evolution. Men are filled with testosterone, there is a reason for that.

    statistically speaking a man is more likely to be murdered or suffer a violent assault that a woman. Yet men don't live in fear of other men as a result. We don't automatically assume that if we're walking home at night the man behind must pose a threat. Yet some women are making out there is danger behind every doorway. This is just not the case.

    I have no idea what can be done to combat this, and to be honest, very few people offer up any kind of real solution that does not involve some form of male bashing and misandry. We can't go around making assumptions about anyone these days unless of course you a male. Its bigotry and prejudicial.

  24. #74
    Feedback
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    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    So wolf whistling from builders shouldnt be discouraged as we should consider those that like it.����������
    if that is what you take from that then fair enough, however you're not really taking on board that every women is different and reacts differently in such situations.

  25. #75

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    If I've understood your point you're saying that children have never had it so good e.g. no corporal punishment, more inclusion, less bullying. Yet despite all of that the incidents of violent crime and murder per million has increased since the 1960s.

    And FWIW, I'm not saying punishment is the only solution. My comment was around the likes of Peter Sutcliffe and this copper who, imho, are predisposed to commit these acts because they are narcissistic and lack empathy for their victims or wider society and don't really see what they are doing as being wrong.
    No, you didn't understand my point but not to worry.

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