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Thread: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

  1. #61

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    So many Conservatives seem to think they've got to diss the party they vote for - is it a way of making them feel better about themselves?
    Probably!

  2. #62

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Brexit and the full frontal assault from the media on their leader for 4 years most likely
    And by his own Party-Twice. This country is getting incredibly right wing. I don't know what the answer is. The media ridicule real Left Wing politicians, their own party members do the same. This is just Left Wing mind, we're not talking about Trotskyists. Blair was more Tory than the Tories, he effectively nicked the tories knickers.

  3. #63

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    And by his own Party-Twice. This country is getting incredibly right wing. I don't know what the answer is. The media ridicule real Left Wing politicians, their own party members do the same. This is just Left Wing mind, we're not talking about Trotskyists. Blair was more Tory than the Tories, he effectively nicked the tories knickers.
    This isn’t just aimed at you, but the Labour/left wing posters in this thread sound like they see the opposite side in the party as the enemy, not the party that have been in power since 2010 - it’s no wonder Labour have lost the last four elections.

  4. #64

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Like Sludge, The Labour Party has Convinced itself that working class people are right wing and Nationalistic. It's part of the Narrative now Starmer is in charge.
    Well clearly that is cobblers but there is an increasing element of the working class that are right wing and nationalistic

    What else would explain the huge swing away from Labour to the tories in former solid Labour seats ?

    Working class people have tended to vote Labour in the past but there have always been working class conservatives

    Wether its Europe , antagonism towards Eastern European workers or the failure of Labour to get its act together and represent the working class something has changed

    I mean Bolsover , a former rock solid Labour seat in mining country shifts to Conservative?

    That says to me Labour has had it

  5. #65

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    This isn’t just aimed at you, but the Labour/left wing posters in this thread sound like they see the opposite side in the party as the enemy, not the party that have been in power since 2010 - it’s no wonder Labour have lost the last four elections.
    The Party is over

    If you pardon the expression

  6. #66

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    This isn’t just aimed at you, but the Labour/left wing posters in this thread sound like they see the opposite side in the party as the enemy, not the party that have been in power since 2010 - it’s no wonder Labour have lost the last four elections.
    This isn't aimed at you, but plenty of centrist/right labour voters see the labour left as the enemy, you make it sound like it's us who are the aggressors. It most certainly is the other way round.

  7. #67

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    This isn't aimed at you, but plenty of centrist/right labour voters see the labour left as the enemy, you make it sound like it's us who are the aggressors. It most certainly is the other way round.
    I’m not saying that, it’s the same on both sides. What I would say about the Labour left though is that it looks sometimes as if they’re happier to be on the outside looking in when it comes to governing the country.

    I’m not arguing for one side or the other, I’d just like to see the party doing less fighting amongst itself and give the country a realistic alternative to what I believe is a mediocre crop of Conservative politicians who probably cannot believe their luck that the official opposition is doing so little opposing.

  8. #68

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I’m not saying that, it’s the same on both sides. What I would say about the Labour left though is that it looks sometimes as if they’re happier to be on the outside looking in when it comes to governing the country.

    I’m not arguing for one side or the other, I’d just like to see the party doing less fighting amongst itself and give the country a realistic alternative to what I believe is a mediocre crop of Conservative politicians who probably cannot believe their luck that the official opposition is doing so little opposing.
    Get into power and do something

    Or just shout from the sidelines

    This country will never elect a left wing government

    Left of centre is the best us lefties can hope for

    And the state of the Labour Party means its further away than ever

    The end is nigh

  9. #69

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I’m not saying that, it’s the same on both sides. What I would say about the Labour left though is that it looks sometimes as if they’re happier to be on the outside looking in when it comes to governing the country.

    I’m not arguing for one side or the other, I’d just like to see the party doing less fighting amongst itself and give the country a realistic alternative to what I believe is a mediocre crop of Conservative politicians who probably cannot believe their luck that the official opposition is doing so little opposing.
    Fair enough, but it seems that it's always those with left wing politics who have to make the concessions. Talked about scornfully, like being left wing is some kind of fairy tale journey towards utopia, and it doesn't exist in the big bad and ugly 'real world' I'm not even hard left, yet my political beliefs are almost patronised. Look at sludge, a defender of those who are vulnerable, the least fortunate in society, Tory cuts are responsible for a hell of a lot of the problems he attempts to bring focus on, yet he's calling for the formation of a party that would do exactly that. This is why the Labour party is ****ed and there is no real left wing alternative. Maybe people should get involved, instead of attempting to dilute even further any left wing opposition.

  10. #70

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    I’ve never seen so many labour voters not wanting to vote labour and tories not wanting to vote Tory.

    I wonder if Plaid wasn’t so strong on independence (or at least lied about it like the rest of the politicians) would they romp home in May?

  11. #71

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Interesting read on the Senedd's history


    https://www.thenational.wales/news/1...tory/?ref=ebln

  12. #72

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I can't decide whether I think Jon's post was a whoosh or not.
    I think he meant Glenn Miller Band.

  13. #73

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Very recently I have reflected on the past few years and realised that I don't share values with the average British person, I guess the decision at that point is to either live in the country they create or move somewhere else more suitable.

  14. #74

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I think a left of centre party would lead this country into a better place than Boris and his crew of libertarians
    Libertarian implies they believe in something. Take a read of the pcsc bill and tell me how a Libertarian would stomach that.

  15. #75

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by chris lee View Post
    Simple they do not represent the working class, have not for a long time.
    I think that the label 'working class' is less easily defined and less meaningful than in the past though (when there were clearer demarkations between people in different socio-economic groups.)
    I think that many people of my generation who were raised in a working class environment and left education even at sixteen are enjoying a lifestyle that was previously associated with the middle class.
    For my part, I'm not a great fan of shoe-horning human beings into distinct categories (when a spectrum describes the situation better).
    It's interesting and probably germane that American politicians do their best to appeal to the US version of the 'middle class', which seems to be more akin to the average Joe economically-speaking rather than the traditional British version of the middle class.
    And it seems to be the middle ground voter without a deep and historical link with either party decides British elections.

  16. #76

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by chris lee View Post
    No they do not, but my theory ( all be it a poor one) is that at least people know what they are getting with the torries, where as Labour tend to come across as very sanctimonious and it does not sit well with people, it makes them very unlikeable, where as it is easier to accept a knob when they do not pretend to be anything but.
    Your reading of this explains what has happened in England, I think traditional Northern and Midlands working class voters and felt Labour had become inner-city type party and moved the UKIP ,Brexit and now Tories .

    This is from This Week article :( interestingly Labour are now reported as popular in high incomes as it was in low income earners )



    When Boris Johnson demolished the Red Wall at last year’s election, it was clear that the usual political rules had been upended.

    Six months after the Conservatives*built a big majority*from formerly safe Labour seats, a new analysis from the*Joseph Rowntree Foundation*reveals just how much has changed.

    “The Conservatives are now more popular among people on low incomes than they are among people on high incomes,” says the social policy think-tank.

    Meanwhile, Labour is “just as popular among the wealthy as it is among those on low incomes”, the report continues. “Both parties have inverted their traditional support base.”

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