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Thread: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

  1. #21

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I think the M4 relief road will happen if tories win. Grant Shapps has already said he has the money for it, but Drakeford reminded him that transport is a devolved matter and the Gwent Levels are more important.

    In my opinion Drakeford has become quite a thorn in Wales side. He is incapable of making big decisions in a timely way and has washed Wales economy onto the rocks. An example...are caravan sites open for Easter? He said a few weeks ago that it might happen on 27th March. Now he says he will decide on 25/26th March whether that will go ahead! How are businesses supposed to handle this sort of indecision from the top?

    His record with Covid is none too good, his firebreak was a disaster as was is his timing of the latest lockdown on 20 December. Done with hardly any notice and people rushing into shops for last chance Christmas shopping. No wonder at the time we had the third worse incidence of Covid in the world.

    People say he's done better than Boris, but when you look at the figures there's not much in it, and currently Wales are showing worse figures in UK per head of population for hospitalisation of Covid patients.

    The sooner he goes the better
    I think drakeford is hopeless , I want him gone but I don't want the tories ruling Wales

    They do on many things but to completely give over power to them would be unthinkable for me and I would knock it on the head

  2. #22

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    I'm a Labour Party member but not a fan of Drakeford.
    I don't want independence so wouldn't vote for Plaid Cymru.
    I said I would never vote Tory, so won't and Andrew 'RT' Davies is thoroughly dislikable, and talks like a dodgy double glazing salesman.
    Do UKIP stand in Wales? I thought their boat had sailed.
    LiB Dems is a wasted vote.

    Actually they should scrap the lot and save a load of money. The civil servants would still be around in the Welsh Office. But all the well paid politicians would be gone.

    I was canvassed by a prospective Labour Party candidate at the local hustings in October 2019, who asked me if I had any questions for her. My question was "What particularly attracts you to the job that carries a salary of £76,000 p.a. plus expenses". I received no answer.
    I was seeing a Welsh speaking Welsh nationalist at the time of the yes vote for the Welsh assembly. She persuaded me to vote yes only to tell me the next day she and her mum had gone shopping in Cardiff and forget to vote .

    That sums up Wales for me , talk the talk

    As for the assembly its bullshit but not having it means that the tories would over run Wales completely

  3. #23

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Plaid are far more socialist than labour will ever be but I am totally opposed to independence so couldn't ever vote plaids, unless it was to keep a tory out
    Socialism is impossible as part of a British state, I'll never understand why some socialists and left wingers are so wedded to the union, you'll never get what you want

  4. #24

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    All i can say, is this. I can't believe that people in this thread really believe that central government Labour is Left Wing. Corbyn Was left wing, he wasn't even far left. And people call for a centrist party, that's Labour, with smatterings of right wing policy.

  5. #25

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I wouldn't believe a word the tories say about the relief road

    Drakeford has got to go , he's a dead duck , I would have eluned morgan in charge , very capable and intelligent woman
    I think the M4 relief road would go ahead if the Tories win. As has been said, Shapp has said there is money available but Drakeford scuppered the plans because protecting the Gwent levels was more important in his opinion. There is a plan on the Internet showing the route of the relief road and only a small portion of it would actually pass through the levels, the vast majority of the area would be untouched. I believe the flora and fauna will always adapt to the situation it finds itself in anyway, short of a catastrophic destruction of the land.

    (https://www.transport-network.co.uk/...rice-tag/13873)

    I presume where the road does cross the levels then it would have to be as bridges due to the boggy nature of the ground?

    Re: Eluned Morgan. I have met her on a couple of occasions and as you say she seems a very capable and intelligent lady and with a genuine concern for people. Would be a good choice for first minister.

  6. #26

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    All i can say, is this. I can't believe that people in this thread really believe that central government Labour is Left Wing. Corbyn Was left wing, he wasn't even far left. And people call for a centrist party, that's Labour, with smatterings of right wing policy.
    It is interesting that in this purely political thread there has been hardly any discussion of the policies of different parties and where they would lead the country. That sort of debate seems to be dead.

    The M4 relief road is an important topic, but it's not a party policy.

  7. #27

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by rich munn View Post
    It is interesting that in this purely political thread there has been hardly any discussion of the policies of different parties and where they would lead the country. That sort of debate seems to be dead.

    The M4 relief road is an important topic, but it's not a party policy.
    Fair shout. We can all be guilty of a bit of political self serving, i know that i can be guilty of it. My biggest concern is services in Wales,, the Tories will attack them, they always have.

  8. #28

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I wouldn't believe a word the tories say about the relief road

    Drakeford has got to go , he's a dead duck , I would have eluned morgan in charge , very capable and intelligent woman

    Didn't Drakeford as Health Minister oversea a huge cut in the health budget in Wales which may have played a part in Wales not having suffident spare capacity for events like Covid

    Worth a read:

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/0...arian-windbag/

  9. #29

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    The Senedd is fiddling while Wales burns. They argue amongst themselves about things that don't matter, while the country is being left behind the rest of the UK. They are so puffed up with their own importance, they've forgotten what they are there for - to work for Wales, and to look out for it's interests. Wales has gone backwards in the last twenty years, and that rate in which we are falling behind is accelerating. Something has to change.
    People in Wales have a built-in tendency to vote for Labour (right or wrong) and that has led to complacency and a lack of will amongst it's politicians. Why bother trying, if you're going to get elected anyway? The Senedd is a talking shop for second rate politicians who couldn't make the grade at Westminster. It's time for a change.

  10. #30
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    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    The Senedd is fiddling while Wales burns. They argue amongst themselves about things that don't matter, while the country is being left behind the rest of the UK. They are so puffed up with their own importance, they've forgotten what they are there for - to work for Wales, and to look out for it's interests. Wales has gone backwards in the last twenty years, and that rate in which we are falling behind is accelerating. Something has to change.
    People in Wales have a built-in tendency to vote for Labour (right or wrong) and that has led to complacency and a lack of will amongst it's politicians. Why bother trying, if you're going to get elected anyway? The Senedd is a talking shop for second rate politicians who couldn't make the grade at Westminster. It's time for a change.
    I think that is basically what I said.

  11. #31

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Didn't Drakeford as Health Minister oversea a huge cut in the health budget in Wales which may have played a part in Wales not having suffident spare capacity for events like Covid

    Worth a read:

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/0...arian-windbag/
    why do you think drakeford had to make budget cuts ?

  12. #32

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    All i can say, is this. I can't believe that people in this thread really believe that central government Labour is Left Wing. Corbyn Was left wing, he wasn't even far left. And people call for a centrist party, that's Labour, with smatterings of right wing policy.
    Well if a left wing party under corbyn got a beating in the polls do you think a far left party would do better ?

    I would love a socialist party in control of this country but its never going to happen so we have to try and get the best we can

  13. #33

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by rich munn View Post
    It is interesting that in this purely political thread there has been hardly any discussion of the policies of different parties and where they would lead the country. That sort of debate seems to be dead.

    The M4 relief road is an important topic, but it's not a party policy.
    I think a left of centre party would lead this country into a better place than Boris and his crew of libertarians

  14. #34

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    The Senedd is fiddling while Wales burns. They argue amongst themselves about things that don't matter, while the country is being left behind the rest of the UK. They are so puffed up with their own importance, they've forgotten what they are there for - to work for Wales, and to look out for it's interests. Wales has gone backwards in the last twenty years, and that rate in which we are falling behind is accelerating. Something has to change.
    People in Wales have a built-in tendency to vote for Labour (right or wrong) and that has led to complacency and a lack of will amongst it's politicians. Why bother trying, if you're going to get elected anyway? The Senedd is a talking shop for second rate politicians who couldn't make the grade at Westminster. It's time for a change.
    to the conservatives , christ no

    Getting rid of the assembly ?

    Thats a matter for debate

  15. #35

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Labour are not finished.Their time will come again but they desperately need a charismatic leader.

  16. #36

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Labour are not finished.Their time will come again but they desperately need a charismatic leader.
    Agreed. There was talk 20 years ago that the Tories were finished after successive Labour landslides. The Tories haven't even got close to emulating that level of support.

  17. #37

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Agreed. There was talk 20 years ago that the Tories were finished after successive Labour landslides. The Tories haven't even got close to emulating that level of support.
    Both in Wales and England Labour decent leaders (imo). But both lack the charisma of previous leaders.
    Mark Drakeford is no Rhodri Morgan, Keir Starmer is no Tony Blair or even Jeremy Corbyn.
    If you look to Scotland Nicola Sturgeon has bags of charisma.
    Assuming MD is reelected he always intended standing down midway the next government. Hopefully members will elect the right candidate preferably a woman, to take the Labo6party forward.

  18. #38

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Labour are not finished.Their time will come again but they desperately need a charismatic leader.
    Labour are finished until they decide who they are.

    It’s like 2 separate parties in one with conflicting policies, conflicting people and a conflicting vision.

    I’d love to vote Labour but for every one thing I agree with there’s two that I don’t.

  19. #39

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Well if a left wing party under corbyn got a beating in the polls do you think a far left party would do better ?

    I would love a socialist party in control of this country but its never going to happen so we have to try and get the best we can
    I'm not asking for a far left party, even in the unlikely event of it happening, the establishment would crush it, as they did with Corbyn, as did plenty of his Parliamentary party members, because they're not really left wing, they're pro business, pro Bosses, in fear of a right wing media. I think what you want is a Tory lite party, because you think that there's no other option. The Bullies and Gangsters have decided which way politics is going in this country, just to protect their own interests, plenty of people jumping on board with it. I'll never endorse the dilution of real left wing politics, even though it's been happening for the past 30 years.

  20. #40

    Re: The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    I'm not asking for a far left party, even in the unlikely event of it happening, the establishment would crush it, as they did with Corbyn, as did plenty of his Parliamentary party members, because they're not really left wing, they're pro business, pro Bosses, in fear of a right wing media. I think what you want is a Tory lite party, because you think that there's no other option. The Bullies and Gangsters have decided which way politics is going in this country, just to protect their own interests, plenty of people jumping on board with it. I'll never endorse the dilution of real left wing politics, even though it's been happening for the past 30 years.
    I'm fairly convinced that most people who see themselves as "Proper Labour voters" really want that.

    We're a servile nation who fetishise authority to the extent that we've got swathes of the country supporting a bill that severely infringes our right to protest. Relatively tame demonstrations are condemned even by liberals and the Labour Party. A former Labour leader was hounded on television for refusing to say he'd commit mass murder through nuclear war while his successor (who abhors violence unless its by the state) says confidently he'd do it. Labour's fully costed, moderately socialist manifesto was considered "far left", "loony", "Stalinist" etc. Anybody who believes in basic decency is a "woke snowflake", anyone who questions whether Winston Churchill was an amazing superhero who did nothing wrong apparently hates the country.

    British political discourse has shifted to such a degree that I honestly can't see a Labour government forming for a long time, never mind a properly left wing one. Regardless, Labour are not a vehicle for change, they have vested interests in retaining the status quo. That's true in Westminster and here in Wales

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