The Labour Party Is Finished And Must Merge With Others To Challenge Tories

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

'Cameron was thatchers love child and alongside that we had Ed milligan who again was a nice bloke but totally incompetent as a leader and crucified by the right wing press'

Sludge, I hope you aren't one of those people who think Ed's brother Spike would have been a better leader?

Christ no , he was right behind Blair regarding Iraq

I thought Andy Burnham would have made a good leader

And David Lammy

[xsnaggle]

Christ no , he was right behind Blair regarding Iraq

I thought Andy Burnham would have made a good leader

And David Lammy

I can't decide whether I think Jon's post was a whoosh or not.

[jon1959]

I can't decide whether I think Jon's post was a whoosh or not.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I can't decide whether I think Jon's post was a whoosh or not.

I think he meant Glenn Miller Band.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I feel sorry for Starmer. He's intelligent, conscientious and qualified but not particularly television friendly, which these days seems to mean an entertaining but incompetent, lying crook. We like the drama more than anything, and any talk of having a "leader" is waffle, seeing as the only definition of that seems to be posh, rich and forthright.

If we'd voted for Milliband, who didn't get in cos he was seen as weird (so there's an exception to drama rule - you have to be mainstream drama) then he would've done as good a job as Cameron (not difficult) and we'd still be in the EU. It's all presentation, and it's pathetic.

[WJ99mobile]

Christ no , he was right behind Blair regarding Iraq

I thought Andy Burnham would have made a good leader

And David Lammy

David Lammy comes across as an arsehole

[Hilts]

The next general election is a long way away.

Starmer needs to get nastier as the pandemic ends.

Having this bunch of idiots voted in again woukd make the UK looks as bad as the US loons voting in Trump.

[life on mars]

What Labour need to work out is why this happened :

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9249936.html

[chris lee]

What Labour need to work out is why this happened :

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9249936.html

Simple they do not represent the working class, have not for a long time.

[City123]

Simple they do not represent the working class, have not for a long time.

And the Conservatives do?

[chris lee]

And the Conservatives do?

No they do not, but my theory ( all be it a poor one) is that at least people know what they are getting with the torries, where as Labour tend to come across as very sanctimonious and it does not sit well with people, it makes them very unlikeable, where as it is easier to accept a knob when they do not pretend to be anything but.

[the other bob wilson]

No they do not, but my theory ( all be it a poor one) is that at least people know what they are getting with the torries, where as Labour tend to come across as very sanctimonious and it does not sit well with people, it makes them very unlikeable, where as it is easier to accept a knob when they do not pretend to be anything but.

So many Conservatives seem to think they've got to diss the party they vote for - is it a way of making them feel better about themselves?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Simple they do not represent the working class, have not for a long time.

I think that the label 'working class' is less easily defined and less meaningful than in the past though (when there were clearer demarkations between people in different socio-economic groups.)
I think that many people of my generation who were raised in a working class environment and left education even at sixteen are enjoying a lifestyle that was previously associated with the middle class.
For my part, I'm not a great fan of shoe-horning human beings into distinct categories (when a spectrum describes the situation better).
It's interesting and probably germane that American politicians do their best to appeal to the US version of the 'middle class', which seems to be more akin to the average Joe economically-speaking rather than the traditional British version of the middle class.
And it seems to be the middle ground voter without a deep and historical link with either party decides British elections.

[City123]

What Labour need to work out is why this happened :

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9249936.html

Brexit and the full frontal assault from the media on their leader for 4 years most likely

[Tuerto]

Brexit and the full frontal assault from the media on their leader for 4 years most likely

And by his own Party-Twice. This country is getting incredibly right wing. I don't know what the answer is. The media ridicule real Left Wing politicians, their own party members do the same. This is just Left Wing mind, we're not talking about Trotskyists. Blair was more Tory than the Tories, he effectively nicked the tories knickers.

[the other bob wilson]

And by his own Party-Twice. This country is getting incredibly right wing. I don't know what the answer is. The media ridicule real Left Wing politicians, their own party members do the same. This is just Left Wing mind, we're not talking about Trotskyists. Blair was more Tory than the Tories, he effectively nicked the tories knickers.

This isn’t just aimed at you, but the Labour/left wing posters in this thread sound like they see the opposite side in the party as the enemy, not the party that have been in power since 2010 - it’s no wonder Labour have lost the last four elections.

[Tuerto]

This isn’t just aimed at you, but the Labour/left wing posters in this thread sound like they see the opposite side in the party as the enemy, not the party that have been in power since 2010 - it’s no wonder Labour have lost the last four elections.

This isn't aimed at you, but plenty of centrist/right labour voters see the labour left as the enemy, you make it sound like it's us who are the aggressors. It most certainly is the other way round.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Like Sludge, The Labour Party has Convinced itself that working class people are right wing and Nationalistic. It's part of the Narrative now Starmer is in charge.

Well clearly that is cobblers but there is an increasing element of the working class that are right wing and nationalistic

What else would explain the huge swing away from Labour to the tories in former solid Labour seats ?

Working class people have tended to vote Labour in the past but there have always been working class conservatives

Wether its Europe , antagonism towards Eastern European workers or the failure of Labour to get its act together and represent the working class something has changed

I mean Bolsover , a former rock solid Labour seat in mining country shifts to Conservative?

That says to me Labour has had it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

This isn’t just aimed at you, but the Labour/left wing posters in this thread sound like they see the opposite side in the party as the enemy, not the party that have been in power since 2010 - it’s no wonder Labour have lost the last four elections.

The Party is over

If you pardon the expression

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I’m not saying that, it’s the same on both sides. What I would say about the Labour left though is that it looks sometimes as if they’re happier to be on the outside looking in when it comes to governing the country.

I’m not arguing for one side or the other, I’d just like to see the party doing less fighting amongst itself and give the country a realistic alternative to what I believe is a mediocre crop of Conservative politicians who probably cannot believe their luck that the official opposition is doing so little opposing.

Get into power and do something

Or just shout from the sidelines

This country will never elect a left wing government

Left of centre is the best us lefties can hope for

And the state of the Labour Party means its further away than ever

The end is nigh

[Tuerto]

I’m not saying that, it’s the same on both sides. What I would say about the Labour left though is that it looks sometimes as if they’re happier to be on the outside looking in when it comes to governing the country.

I’m not arguing for one side or the other, I’d just like to see the party doing less fighting amongst itself and give the country a realistic alternative to what I believe is a mediocre crop of Conservative politicians who probably cannot believe their luck that the official opposition is doing so little opposing.

Fair enough, but it seems that it's always those with left wing politics who have to make the concessions. Talked about scornfully, like being left wing is some kind of fairy tale journey towards utopia, and it doesn't exist in the big bad and ugly 'real world' I'm not even hard left, yet my political beliefs are almost patronised. Look at sludge, a defender of those who are vulnerable, the least fortunate in society, Tory cuts are responsible for a hell of a lot of the problems he attempts to bring focus on, yet he's calling for the formation of a party that would do exactly that. This is why the Labour party is ****ed and there is no real left wing alternative. Maybe people should get involved, instead of attempting to dilute even further any left wing opposition.

[Wozza16]

I’ve never seen so many labour voters not wanting to vote labour and tories not wanting to vote Tory.

I wonder if Plaid wasn’t so strong on independence (or at least lied about it like the rest of the politicians) would they romp home in May?

[Eric Cartman]

Very recently I have reflected on the past few years and realised that I don't share values with the average British person, I guess the decision at that point is to either live in the country they create or move somewhere else more suitable.

[life on mars]

No they do not, but my theory ( all be it a poor one) is that at least people know what they are getting with the torries, where as Labour tend to come across as very sanctimonious and it does not sit well with people, it makes them very unlikeable, where as it is easier to accept a knob when they do not pretend to be anything but.

Your reading of this explains what has happened in England, I think traditional Northern and Midlands working class voters and felt Labour had become inner-city type party and moved the UKIP ,Brexit and now Tories .

This is from This Week article :( interestingly Labour are now reported as popular in high incomes as it was in low income earners )



When Boris Johnson demolished the Red Wall at last year’s election, it was clear that the usual political rules had been upended.

Six months after the Conservatives*built a big majority*from formerly safe Labour seats, a new analysis from the*Joseph Rowntree Foundation*reveals just how much has changed.

“The Conservatives are now more popular among people on low incomes than they are among people on high incomes,” says the social policy think-tank.

Meanwhile, Labour is “just as popular among the wealthy as it is among those on low incomes”, the report continues. “Both parties have inverted their traditional support base.”