MY CITY MY SHIRT

[adz-a32]

There’s no proof that people with the relevant qualifications have been overlooked because of the colour of their skin.

If Cardiff City were as racist as you and the rest of the loons on this thread seem to be implying how come we’ve got so many black players? A black assistant manager? More important positions than someone in marketing or IT I would suggest.

The issue with racism is that if it has happened, it is hard to prove as it is covert. And racism in recruitment and the workplace can happen in organisations where there are people of colour.

Going back on topic, the quote about reverse racism, from a club official, and Sludge’s anecdote are both shocking

[the other bob wilson]

I see this thread has descended into an argument, are they compulsory on here, because this just seems like an argument for the sake of one.

As I understand it, the original point was not about jobs, it was about getting more people of colour attending games. The evidence of my own eyes tells me that, proportionately, support from such groups is well below what it should be and, unless the quotes in the link City 123 posted on the first page of this thread are lies, the club were against a project to try and increase numbers because, ludicrously, they feared it would be seen as "reverse racism" - well, I can't speak for others, but I wouldn't stop attending matches if I started seeing more non white faces at Cardiff City Stadium.

[Croesy Blue]

Ah so you’re assuming. If you are going to imply the club is institutionally racist at least back it up with something a bit more substantial than an assumption.

I’m using evidence to say society is institutionally racist when it comes to hiring people.

I don’t believe the club is any better or worse than anywhere else in that case. But I have always thought considering the location of the club we have a surprisingly low number of non white fans.

It’s the use of reverse racism I have an issue with which is bordering on ignorant at best.

[J R Hartley]

I’m using evidence to say society is institutionally racist when it comes to hiring people.

I don’t believe the club is any better or worse than anywhere else in that case. But I have always thought considering the location of the club we have a surprisingly low number of non white fans.

It’s the use of reverse racism I have an issue with which is bordering on ignorant at best.

We’ve only heard one side and no context on how that term was used. That’s if it was used directly and isn’t just the person in the articles interpretation of what the club officer was saying. It’s a second hand quote but in typical CCMB fashion let’s hang, draw and quarter the football club before getting their take on the matter.

As for the hiring, as I’m suffering insomnia at the moment I googled a few things last night/this mornind and found out we employ many PoC staff, not just in the zero hour contract departments such as catering department, but also in community engagement roles and also our head of fitness and conditioning, Carl Serrant, is a PoC. So in the first team alone the assistant manager and head of fitness are PoC. Also, its no secret Sol Bamba is being groomed as a future coach, possibly manager of the football club.

I also took Mozzers advice and googled the Cardiff City Community Foundation and the tremendous work they do. Work they do with local schools and local community teams, some of which he has had personal experience actually running a multi cultural junior team in the community himself for a decade.

However, in typical CCMB fashion again, he gets shouted down by someone with an example from 11 years ago and who’s opinions on all matters, not just football, opinions which he strongly try’s to force onto others, are usually formed from experiences 20-30 years ago. It’s utterly laughable,

Finally, there is also the House of Sport facility, a not for profit facility in the local community, one ive had the pleasure of attending regularly before covid struck as my daughter played in a netball league there. It employs people from within the local community and is also used by a very diverse membership. Yes it was Steve Borleys idea but Ken Choo is a trustee and the facility is clearly connected to the club.

Personally I think to suggest the club isn’t trying to do its bit in the diverse local community and is no better or worse to the rest of society is an insult to some of the obvious good work that it actually does.

I don’t agree with DML very often, not least because I think he’s a multi with a personality disorder, but he’s right about one thing. It’s the usual suspects knocking the club again.

[Tuerto]

We’ve only heard one side and no context on how that term was used. That’s if it was used directly and isn’t just the person in the articles interpretation of what the club officer was saying. It’s a second hand quote but in typical CCMB fashion let’s hang, draw and quarter the football club before getting their take on the matter.

As for the hiring, as I’m suffering insomnia at the moment I googled a few things last night/this mornind and found out we employ many PoC staff, not just in the zero hour contract departments such as catering department, but also in community engagement roles and also our head of fitness and conditioning, Carl Serrant, is a PoC. So in the first team alone the assistant manager and head of fitness are PoC. Also, its no secret Sol Bamba is being groomed as a future coach, possibly manager of the football club.

I also took Mozzers advice and googled the Cardiff City Community Foundation and the tremendous work they do. Work they do with local schools and local community teams, some of which he has had personal experience actually running a multi cultural junior team in the community himself for a decade.

However, in typical CCMB fashion again, he gets shouted down by someone with an example from 11 years ago and who’s opinions on all matters, not just football, opinions which he strongly try’s to force onto others, are usually formed from experiences 20-30 years ago. It’s utterly laughable,

Finally, there is also the House of Sport facility, a not for profit facility in the local community, one ive had the pleasure of attending regularly before covid struck as my daughter played in a netball league there. It employs people from within the local community and is also used by a very diverse membership. Yes it was Steve Borleys idea but Ken Choo is a trustee and the facility is clearly connected to the club.

Personally I think to suggest the club isn’t trying to do its bit in the diverse local community and is no better or worse to the rest of society is an insult to some of the obvious good work that it actually does.

I don’t agree with DML very often, not least because I think he’s a multi with a personality disorder, but he’s right about one thing. It’s the usual suspects knocking the club again.

I don't think that Reverse Racism is much of a problem for white people in this country, sure, there will be isolated incidents that effect individuals, but overall and institutionally, racism towards white people in the UK isn't a problem. That isn't difficult to work out, as it isn't Black people who hold the seat of power institutionally, establishment wise or in business. A white person is much more likely to be discriminated against due to class.

The Term 'Reverse Racism' is clearly wrong, it's a bit like saying that white and black people are even in that department and that it can and has effected all of us equally. That is categorically wrong in every respect, and in whatever context it was used, it was wrong.

[Citizen's Nephew]

We’ve only heard one side and no context on how that term was used. That’s if it was used directly and isn’t just the person in the articles interpretation of what the club officer was saying. It’s a second hand quote but in typical CCMB fashion let’s hang, draw and quarter the football club before getting their take on the matter.

In all fairness, a quote, by its very nature will always be secondhand; but for what its worth, as mentioned in my post yesterday, I spoke to Yusuf and I'm satisfied the club representative at his meeting used the term 'reverse racism'. He was shocked and quite rightly so. As you'll see from the photos I posted it's a very prominent piece of street art in Butetown and to that end is an amazing advertismemnt for our club. I could have named the person who used the term too but would never do so on a public forum so I'm satisfied that our club missed an opportunity to be involved in something that has a massive impact in my local community and will hopefully encourage a greater diversity of support in the stands - which is where I think the club needs to put more effort. Sadly, right now, the club has missed an opportunity but even worse than that, made a PR mistake, in my opinion.

Is this knocking CCFC? Of course not. Just look at our fanbase demographic and it's clear that something is wrong when a diversity of local people aren't attending games in greater numbers.

My wife and I walk to games (well, I kind of hobble on crutches but that's another story) and see another couple walk to the games too. That's it. We pass loads of local young lads and they see us in scarves, shirts etc but they would never think of going themselves. Why is that? They love football. They watch football. But won't go and watch us when we're a mile or less from their homes. I think we need to know the answer from them and this piece of artwork will at least get that conversation happening - because it needs to.

[Croesy Blue]

JR don’t want to quote as it’ll take up more space, but do you think there is ever a reason for a person at the club to use the term reverse racism?

For me the issue isn’t the club doing things in the community, as far as I can see it’s doing pretty well with these sorts of initiatives and it’s a complete separate issue.

But the term reverse racism is about a loaded a term as you can use and I think the person using it is being a bit ignorant at best.

[dml1954]

How do you know this to be a fact? What evidence do you have?

Its not rocket science is it. Work it out yourself. In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s I saw and heard disgraceful racist behaviour in our ground by our own fans against black players, fans of opposing teams and also our own fans from ethnic backgrounds, that on many occasions made me thoroughly ashamed to be a Cardiff City fan. The people who used to partake in this activity haven't miraculously gone away. A lot of them still attend games but have suppressed their natural urges to shout and sing racist or obscene things, due to the zero tolerance by the club and authorities of that kind of behaviour inside the grounds. That doesn't mean that they still don't believe they were in the right and wouldn't start up again given any encouragement. They carry on doing it anonymously anyway, hiding behind their keyboards on social media. It is hardly surprising that people from ethnic minority backgrounds have a deep distrust and are still reluctant to attend games.

[dml1954]

What did the fan who painted that do wrong?

Absolutely nothing.

[dml1954]

We’ve only heard one side and no context on how that term was used. That’s if it was used directly and isn’t just the person in the articles interpretation of what the club officer was saying. It’s a second hand quote but in typical CCMB fashion let’s hang, draw and quarter the football club before getting their take on the matter.

As for the hiring, as I’m suffering insomnia at the moment I googled a few things last night/this mornind and found out we employ many PoC staff, not just in the zero hour contract departments such as catering department, but also in community engagement roles and also our head of fitness and conditioning, Carl Serrant, is a PoC. So in the first team alone the assistant manager and head of fitness are PoC. Also, its no secret Sol Bamba is being groomed as a future coach, possibly manager of the football club.

I also took Mozzers advice and googled the Cardiff City Community Foundation and the tremendous work they do. Work they do with local schools and local community teams, some of which he has had personal experience actually running a multi cultural junior team in the community himself for a decade.

However, in typical CCMB fashion again, he gets shouted down by someone with an example from 11 years ago and who’s opinions on all matters, not just football, opinions which he strongly try’s to force onto others, are usually formed from experiences 20-30 years ago. It’s utterly laughable,

Finally, there is also the House of Sport facility, a not for profit facility in the local community, one ive had the pleasure of attending regularly before covid struck as my daughter played in a netball league there. It employs people from within the local community and is also used by a very diverse membership. Yes it was Steve Borleys idea but Ken Choo is a trustee and the facility is clearly connected to the club.

Personally I think to suggest the club isn’t trying to do its bit in the diverse local community and is no better or worse to the rest of society is an insult to some of the obvious good work that it actually does.

I don’t agree with DML very often, not least because I think he’s a multi with a personality disorder, but he’s right about one thing. It’s the usual suspects knocking the club again.

Look, you agree with parts of what I said but then do your usual last paragraph throwaway insult lines. I may or may not have a personality disorder (you and me are certainly not qualified to make detailed diagnosis on that kind of thing). If I have, then I don't think that I would be on my own, from this boards users, in the psychiatrists waiting room. However, one thing that I can assure you of is that I don't have multiple accounts on this or any other forum and just post under the one user name. I have never understood the need for that kind of behaviour. Its up to you whether you believe me or not but I have no objection to Mike Morris confirming this to you direct, if he is allowed.

[The Lone Gunman]

Its not rocket science is it. Work it out yourself. In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s I saw and heard disgraceful racist behaviour in our ground by our own fans against black players, fans of opposing teams and also our own fans from ethnic backgrounds, that on many occasions made me thoroughly ashamed to be a Cardiff City fan. The people who used to partake in this activity haven't miraculously gone away. A lot of them still attend games but have suppressed their natural urges to shout and sing racist or obscene things, due to the zero tolerance by the club and authorities of that kind of behaviour inside the grounds. That doesn't mean that they still don't believe they were in the right and wouldn't start up again given any encouragement. They carry on doing it anonymously anyway, hiding behind their keyboards on social media. It is hardly surprising that people from ethnic minority backgrounds have a deep distrust and are still reluctant to attend games.

So you don't know it to be a fact at all, then. You've just decided it is based on your own beliefs.

[life on mars]

Its not rocket science is it. Work it out yourself. In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s I saw and heard disgraceful racist behaviour in our ground by our own fans against black players, fans of opposing teams and also our own fans from ethnic backgrounds, that on many occasions made me thoroughly ashamed to be a Cardiff City fan. The people who used to partake in this activity haven't miraculously gone away. A lot of them still attend games but have suppressed their natural urges to shout and sing racist or obscene things, due to the zero tolerance by the club and authorities of that kind of behaviour inside the grounds. That doesn't mean that they still don't believe they were in the right and wouldn't start up again given any encouragement. They carry on doing it anonymously anyway, hiding behind their keyboards on social media. It is hardly surprising that people from ethnic minority backgrounds have a deep distrust and are still reluctant to attend games.

Think your right , in as much racism, homophobia festered comfartbly in the 70 ,80,and 90' , where right wing chapters infiltrated the sport , the local BAME communities throughout the UK were aware of that and I think that distrust of football has carried on through many generations, as a consequence and sadly we will never see BAME fans ever connecting in big numbers to football .

I do belive though the club does great work in the community , can it do better of course it can, so can society.

Although we do see more great Black footballers applying their trade so well ,which is a positive.

[dml1954]

So you don't know it to be a fact at all, then. You've just decided it is based on your own beliefs.

Whats wrong with that. I thought that the whole point of a forum was to give opinion on a range of subjects. I suppose that everything you post is a cast iron fact is it ? My opinion is based on the knowledge and experience of what I have seen as a 65 year old Cardiff City/football fan. As I said, I have seen and heard some things over the years that have sickened me.

[The Lone Gunman]

Whats wrong with that. I thought that the whole point of a forum was to give opinion on a range of subjects.

You stated: "The single biggest reason why people of different ethnic backgrounds feel unable to attend matches and be part of the club as fans, is the way in which they are treated by other fans and the fact that they perceive that coming to the ground would not be an enjoyable experience and could even be dangerous."

You didn't offer that as an opinion. You stated it as a fact when the truth is you haven't got a clue why the people you refer to don't attend games in any numbers. I believe it's a complex subject and the answer is nowhere near as straightforward as you seem to think it is.

Ask yourself this question: why would young people from black or Asian backgrounds who are in their teens and twenties be in any way affected by the racist behaviour that you witnessed among City crowds in a different ground during completely different eras?

[dml1954]

You stated: "The single biggest reason why people of different ethnic backgrounds feel unable to attend matches and be part of the club as fans, is the way in which they are treated by other fans and the fact that they perceive that coming to the ground would not be an enjoyable experience and could even be dangerous."

You didn't offer that as an opinion. You stated it as a fact when the truth is you haven't got a clue why the people you refer to don't attend games in any numbers. I believe it's a complex subject and the answer is nowhere near as straightforward as you seem to think it is.

Ask yourself this question: why would young people from black or Asian backgrounds who are in their teens and twenties be in any way affected by the racist behaviour that you witnessed among City crowds in a different ground during completely different eras?

Thats a stupid question. Its because the club has a reputation amongst black and other ethnic minority groups for having hooligan and racist fans. Its an unfair reputation nowadays, certainly since we moved from Ninian Park and Tan took over but if you were a father or grandfather of a young black person, would you encourage your son or grandson to go to watch City or would you actually take him to watch ? Thats how most fans start out. If ever I am away and tell someone I meet that I am a Cardiff City fan, invariably the first thing they say is along the lines of ‘you are one of those hooligans then are you’ or ‘had any good fights down there lately’ or ‘oh yes - that racist bunch’. Perhaps you don't think we ever had a hooligan or racist problem in the first place ? Perhaps you were part of that problem ? The longstanding reputation of our fans is definitely a problem and no sane person would ever dispute that.

[The Lone Gunman]

If ever I am away and tell someone I meet that I am a Cardiff City fan, invariably the first thing they say is along the lines of ‘you are one of those hooligans then are you’ or ‘had any good fights down there lately’ or ‘oh yes - that racist bunch’.

Yeah, bet they do. Bet they do. Happens all the time.

[The Lone Gunman]

Thats a stupid question. Its because the club has a reputation amongst black and other ethnic minority groups for having hooligan and racist fans.

How do you know?

[J R Hartley]

Cardiff City’s main players in the hooligan years were the Docks boys, who were a diverse bunch so I’m not buying this racist hooligan crap. I remember being on an away trip from the Kings and a certain lad from Port Talbot who is a POC gave a boy from Cardiff a clip because he was going to C18 meetings. No one on that bus intervened to stop the racist getting his commupence.

[J R Hartley]

JR don’t want to quote as it’ll take up more space, but do you think there is ever a reason for a person at the club to use the term reverse racism?

For me the issue isn’t the club doing things in the community, as far as I can see it’s doing pretty well with these sorts of initiatives and it’s a complete separate issue.

But the term reverse racism is about a loaded a term as you can use and I think the person using it is being a bit ignorant at best.

If it has been used in the way that’s being reported - and ive no reason to doubt Citizen he seems genuine enough - then it’s incredibly naive and poor judgement from a person who’s job it is to engage with the local community.

HOWEVER, does that make the whole club racist? I don’t think so. It just really got my back up the way this thread descended into the club being called racist from top to bottom and people sticking the boot in when clearly the club in general are trying to engage with the local community. Using examples from 11 years ago is utterly pathetic, and is an insult to the good work the club have done within the community in that time.

You’d swear we were Millwall 1970s or Dinamo Zagreb or some other eastern block racist fan base the way Sludge talks about us. Utterly pathetic.

[dml1954]

How do you know?

Another stupid and totally time wasting question. You are good at that, I will admit.

[dml1954]

Cardiff City’s main players in the hooligan years were the Docks boys, who were a diverse bunch so I’m not buying this racist hooligan crap. I remember being on an away trip from the Kings and a certain lad from Port Talbot who is a POC gave a boy from Cardiff a clip because he was going to C18 meetings. No one on that bus intervened to stop the racist getting his commupence.

There were hooligans who liked a fight against anybody who was interested (organised or otherwise), there were racists in the crowd who shouted vile abuse at black players all the time in front of everyone and there were racist hooligans who had fights with black people. I was there and witnessed it. Anyone who denies it happened is just plain wrong. Anyone who thinks that all that had no influence on ethnic minority people attending games is deluded.

[dml1954]

Yeah, bet they do. Bet they do. Happens all the time.

You are in denial obviously. It still happens to this day. It happened to me last week when we played Swansea - someone I know from work messaged me to say it was a good job that the ground was closed by Covid because otherwise there would be fighting all around Swansea.

[J R Hartley]

There were hooligans who liked a fight against anybody who was interested (organised or otherwise), there were racists in the crowd who shouted vile abuse at black players all the time in front of everyone and there were racist hooligans who had fights with black people. I was there and witnessed it. Anyone who denies it happened is just plain wrong. Anyone who thinks that all that had no influence on ethnic minority people attending games is deluded.

Utter bollocks

[J R Hartley]

You are in denial obviously. It still happens to this day. It happened to me last week when we played Swansea - someone I know from work messaged me to say it was a good job that the ground was closed by Covid because otherwise there would be fighting all around Swansea.

****ing hell

[dml1954]

Utter bollocks

So you deny that any of that used to happen ? You obviously weren't there then or have some other reason for not wanting to remember it. What is the matter with you. I remember it like it was yesterday because I was actually there.