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Thread: Vaccine Confusion Europe

  1. #1

    Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Does anyone know what is going on with the EU as they have now asked India to supply 10m doses of Astrazeneca’s vaccine , the very one they have been very critical off which has and is effecting take up in Europe amongstthe elderly ??

    Firstly we got 'Astra vaccine not right for the elderly .

    Then they claim its unfair distribution effecting their vaccine program,

    We later discover their slow commitment to vaccine funding and late contract setting is now effecting their vaccinations.

    Along comes the unfair vaccine roll out , at the same time they are suspening its use in age groups and some countries.

    The their own medical agency states its safe to use .

    Then some countries say its ow un - safe for under 60's

    If its causing blood clots with 22 million vaccinated in UK would we not see problems by now ??

    Now with France and Germany approaching third wave and lockdown its now called the British variant . ( I thought Italy was the birth of this virus in Europe )

    Now they want to use the Russian sputnik vaccine , is that as safe as Astra vaccine,is it tested ?.

    Bewildering events .

  2. #2

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    The new variant was first reported in Kent - it was first known in the UK as "the Kent variant", biut the "UK variant" outside the UK.
    As it was first seen in Kent. it almost cetainly arrived from the EU, or by illegal immigrants, so it's a bit unfair to call it UK.
    As for the other stuff, many different countries in the EU have tried to go their own way with noth vaccines and restrictions/lockdowns, but land borders re easily crossed. They're now looking at a third wave, which wil probably throw up a new variant or three

  3. #3

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Does anyone know what is going on with the EU as they have now asked India to supply 10m doses of Astrazeneca’s vaccine , the very one they have been very critical off which has and is effecting take up in Europe amongstthe elderly ??

    Firstly we got 'Astra vaccine not right for the elderly .

    Then they claim its unfair distribution effecting their vaccine program,

    We later discover their slow commitment to vaccine funding and late contract setting is now effecting their vaccinations.

    Along comes the unfair vaccine roll out , at the same time they are suspening its use in age groups and some countries.

    The their own medical agency states its safe to use .

    Then some countries say its ow un - safe for under 60's

    If its causing blood clots with 22 million vaccinated in UK would we not see problems by now ??

    Now with France and Germany approaching third wave and lockdown its now called the British variant . ( I thought Italy was the birth of this virus in Europe )

    Now they want to use the Russian sputnik vaccine , is that as safe as Astra vaccine,is it tested ?.

    Bewildering events .
    Madness

  4. #4

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Does anyone know what is going on with the EU as they have now asked India to supply 10m doses of Astrazeneca’s vaccine , the very one they have been very critical off which has and is effecting take up in Europe amongstthe elderly ??

    Firstly we got 'Astra vaccine not right for the elderly .

    Then they claim its unfair distribution effecting their vaccine program,

    We later discover their slow commitment to vaccine funding and late contract setting is now effecting their vaccinations.

    Along comes the unfair vaccine roll out , at the same time they are suspening its use in age groups and some countries.

    The their own medical agency states its safe to use .

    Then some countries say its ow un - safe for under 60's

    If its causing blood clots with 22 million vaccinated in UK would we not see problems by now ??

    Now with France and Germany approaching third wave and lockdown its now called the British variant . ( I thought Italy was the birth of this virus in Europe )

    Now they want to use the Russian sputnik vaccine , is that as safe as Astra vaccine,is it tested ?.

    Bewildering events .
    If it wasnt so serious it would be funny

    we know they will blame the UK in the end, so its a win win for them

  5. #5

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion

  6. #6

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion
    Don't most countries see themselves as the centre of the universe though Des? France and Germany certainly seem to.

    And who started using the AZ vaccine as a political football?

    I think there are certainly faults in the way the UK has dealt with Brexit.

    But so have the EU got things wrong.
    There is arrogance on both sides.

    Never thought we would miss Jean Claude Junker but he and Tusk are political genius's compared to the current mob in charge. They have arrogance in spades!

  7. #7

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion
    Thanks Des for providing the "balance" that LOM is so keen on normally.

  8. #8

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion
    You’ve done well there Des to get the opinions of 350 million people, seriously though, it’s more about the Euro politicians than the people. I’m sure our media is playing mind games but throwing their toys out the pram about AZ all the time when there’s only been 5 clots in 11 million doses here isn’t it? They just look desperate to try and ridicule the vaccine rollout here.

  9. #9

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    The nationalistic view of all the different variants is just a political blame game. This is quite simply one virus with different variants which will keep circulating until it eventually dies right down.

    France is currently taking their turn as the hotspot, I’m sure in 3-4 weeks time it’ll move somewhere else including back over here when we’ll need to look at the next stage of lockdown

  10. #10

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Grangenders View Post
    The nationalistic view of all the different variants is just a political blame game. This is quite simply one virus with different variants which will keep circulating until it eventually dies right down.

    France is currently taking their turn as the hotspot, I’m sure in 3-4 weeks time it’ll move somewhere else including back over here when we’ll need to look at the next stage of lockdown
    How will it get here if we don’t let anyone in?

  11. #11

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion
    Very interesting post and I enjoy reading your experiences regarding Brexit, the EU and the broader view beyond these shores. However, in my experience of visiting Germany frequently, Reading and watching their media and talking to friends who are average Joe's and not academics, there is indeed an interest in Brexit. I also think that many countries in Europe are less blinkered than Blighty due to the fact they are geographically contiguous. In the UK we generally have no idea what is happening twenty miles away in Calais unless it's to do with refugees/migrants.

  12. #12

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion
    So why did nearly a million Polish citizens move to the UK between 2008 & 2019 . You're talking absolute .....

  13. #13

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post

    Now they want to use the Russian sputnik vaccine , is that as safe as Astra vaccine,is it tested ?.
    It's funny you mention Sputnik . I'll be ecstatic to have the AZ jab when it's my turn (as any vaccine beats covid by a long shot) but I can't help but think that if Sputnik had the same issues (lower effectiveness, higher risk of mild side effects, about as useful as dirty dishwater against the SA variant) then we'd all be saying 'bloody Russians, no way I'd take that junk' . As far as I can see it's only the fact that it was developed in the UK that's given people a reason to feel protective about the AZ vaccine. The blood clot issue seems to be a nonsense but I can see why countries are nervous about it and it's got nothing to do with where the vaccine was developed.

  14. #14

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by caerkid View Post
    It's funny you mention Sputnik . I'll be ecstatic to have the AZ jab when it's my turn (as any vaccine beats covid by a long shot) but I can't help but think that if Sputnik had the same issues (lower effectiveness, higher risk of mild side effects, about as useful as dirty dishwater against the SA variant) then we'd all be saying 'bloody Russians, no way I'd take that junk' . As far as I can see it's only the fact that it was developed in the UK that's given people a reason to feel protective about the AZ vaccine. The blood clot issue seems to be a nonsense but I can see why countries are nervous about it and it's got nothing to do with where the vaccine was developed.
    Good post.

  15. #15

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Grangenders View Post
    The nationalistic view of all the different variants is just a political blame game. This is quite simply one virus with different variants which will keep circulating until it eventually dies right down.

    France is currently taking their turn as the hotspot, I’m sure in 3-4 weeks time it’ll move somewhere else including back over here when we’ll need to look at the next stage of lockdown
    As at 10 March, VOC 202012/01 (first identified in Kent) continues to be the
    dominant Covid-19 variant in Wales and the UK. There have been no further cases of
    VOC 202012/02 (the variant linked to South Africa) since the last report (17/03/2021) with 25
    cases in Wales detected to date. 1 case of the variant VUI-202101/01 linked to
    Brazil has now been identified in Wales as of this week and there have been 3 cases
    of the variant VUI 202102/03 linked to Nigeria identified in Wales.

    The South African variant remains the most concerning, due to ongoing evidence
    of weaker antibody neutralisation. The South African variant is currently accounting
    for an increasing proportion of cases in Eastern France.


    The P1 variant, first detected in travellers to Japan from Brazil, shares some
    mutations with the South African variant which appear to reduce vaccine
    effectiveness. Although not yet seen in Wales, several cases have been identified
    elsewhere in the UK.

    https://gov.wales/technical-advisory...-19-march-2021
    I wonder if this suggests there is more than one variant accounting for infection numbers increasing in France?

  16. #16

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    How will it get here if we don’t let anyone in?
    Well thats not going to happen.

  17. #17

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Well thats not going to happen.
    Yep, and when the South African variant spreads across the UK in the next few weeks, we start all over again.

  18. #18

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    If the EU can make the AstraZeneca vaccine look dodgy, it gets them off the hook over the complete shambles they have made of the purchasing and distribution of any type of vaccine.

  19. #19

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Having worked extensively throughout Europe for the last 30 years and now living in Poland, I’m witnessing things from a different perspective.

    First & foremost 99%+ of Europeans couldn’t give a toss about the UK, they also have no interest in Brexit or what the UK are doing. I’d also observe that Covid is a lesser issue as well, it’s an inconvenience that people are living with and in a more disciplined way than the UK.

    In recent months the post Brexit media in UK has been sensationalist, nationalistic and embarrassing.

    What you’re seeing in the UK is the view of the world driven by the media & politicians, on this occasion using AZ as the political football.

    It’s pretty obvious that whilst in the UK we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, the outside world doesn’t have the same view and either don’t care about the UK or view us as an arrogant inconvenience.

    Just my observation & formed opinion
    Whats all that got to do with the way that they have made a total cock up of their vaccination programme. Their issues with the AZ vaccine are most likely to do with the fact that they are embarrassed that the UK has rolled it out so fast, so they are doing anything they can to discredit it, as it is viewed as a British vaccine. That attitude will cost them the lives of their citizens. There are at least six different policies on the AZ vaccine within the EU member states - hardly a united Europe is it ?

  20. #20

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Grangenders View Post
    Yep, and when the South African variant spreads across the UK in the next few weeks, we start all over again.
    Doom

  21. #21

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Whats all that got to do with the way that they have made a total cock up of their vaccination programme. Their issues with the AZ vaccine are most likely to do with the fact that they are embarrassed that the UK has rolled it out so fast, so they are doing anything they can to discredit it, as it is viewed as a British vaccine. That attitude will cost them the lives of their citizens. There are at least six different policies on the AZ vaccine within the EU member states - hardly a united Europe is it ?
    I am having difficulty with the concept of Angela Merkel, a former quantum-chemist, holding back the vaccination programme of Germany and presiding over the inevitable rising numbers of deaths merely because of the embarrassment you suggest.

  22. #22

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I am having difficulty with the concept of Angela Merkel, a former quantum-chemist, holding back the vaccination programme of Germany and presiding over the inevitable rising numbers of deaths merely because of the embarrassment you suggest.
    The embarrassment has clearly spread to Canada, who have ceased giving the AZ vaccine to under 55s.

  23. #23

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Grangenders View Post
    Yep, and when the South African variant spreads across the UK in the next few weeks, we start all over again.
    It could well happen even without the South African variant. We are already seeing an alarming increase in cases in Swansea and surrounds, and latterly in Cardiff. This is no doubt due to in house gatherings to watch international rugby, and soon we will another surge through mass social gatherings on beaches, parks and places like Cardiff Bay.

    I was going ask if we will ever learn, but the answer is obvious. Sad really.

  24. #24

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    It could well happen even without the South African variant. We are already seeing an alarming increase in cases in Swansea and surrounds, and latterly in Cardiff. This is no doubt due to in house gatherings to watch international rugby, and soon we will another surge through mass social gatherings on beaches, parks and places like Cardiff Bay.

    I was going ask if we will ever learn, but the answer is obvious. Sad really.
    I recall this worry all last summer and that was without half the population vaccinated....

  25. #25

    Re: Vaccine Confusion Europe

    Just offered my opinion & observation. I’ll respond to a few comments, no I didn’t get to speak to them all but I’m working constantly across Swe, Den, Nl, Bel, Fr, Sp, It, Sui, Ger, Aut, Svk, Cz & Pl so I’ve had a wide range of views. Absolutely Germany, France and the other Western European countries have an interest in Brexit. Without doubt the Germans are arrogant, the reason we’ve moved from UK to Poland is on their say so.Why did the Poles move to Uk, we surveyed the 240 in our Midlands factory and the overwhelming response was religious oppression & intolerance within Poland. I’m in no doubt that the British media & politicians are winding up the AZ, vaccination situation. The local news here is that they’re grateful to receive 650000 AZ doses. At no point have I defended the EU.

    And now for some observations, our brand new shiny factory (paid for by the Japanese, without a cent of EU funding) now has a brand new shiny sign outside saying funded by the EU. Many of my new production team have joined from D*ll, giving the reason for leaving as too many foreigners (aka Ukrainians & Belorussians). And finally contrary to popular belief the locals don’t wear Premier League shirts (or local teams) it seems the done thing to support a Bundesliga team.

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