Who Fancies paying more Income tax ?

[delmbox]

Yet Churchill and the Tories voted against implementation of that report and the creation of the NHS.

They did, 21 times, and Churchill was the PM when it came out in 1942 and was very non committal in his reaction to it, understandable perhaps because he had other things on his mind at the time but he was definitely not one of the "prime movers"

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...built-the-nhs/

https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk...welfare-state/

[Citizen's Nephew]

They did, 21 times, and Churchill was the PM when it came out in 1942 and was very non committal in his reaction to it, understandable perhaps because he had other things on his mind at the time but he was definitely not one of the "prime movers"

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...built-the-nhs/

https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk...welfare-state/

And in 1951 Winston Churchill's Tory government introduced prescription charges (they couldn't wait!).

It should be noted though that three years after the formation of the NHS, Bevan resigned after the introduction of fees for dentures, dental care, and glasses. There's no doubt that the guy was instrumental in the formation of and the principles of the NHS. If Atlee hadn't had won, there's no way the Tories would have implemented it no matter the cross-party consensus that something urgent re. the nation's health needed to be done post-WWII.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

And in 1951 Winston Churchill's Tory government introduced prescription charges (they couldn't wait!).

It should be noted though that three years after the formation of the NHS, Bevan resigned after the introduction of fees for dentures, dental care, and glasses. There's no doubt that the guy was instrumental in the formation of and the principles of the NHS. If Atlee hadn't had won, there's no way the Tories would have implemented it no matter the cross-party consensus that something urgent re. the nation's health needed to be done post-WWII.

never trust a tory

[Elwood Blues]

never trust a tory

Never trust most politicians of ANY persuasion!!

[Tuerto]

Ok I'll bite.

Why wouldn't there be a vaccine if not for left wing policy??

I didn't say that, did I? The rest you can work out for yourself.

[Citizen's Nephew]

never trust a tory

Did you know that an anagram of 'never trust a tory' is 'overture tyrants'? How weird is that? Probably not as weird as me knowing it, admitting it, and posting it publicly though. I just couldn't stop myself.

[Elwood Blues]

Yet Churchill and the Tories voted against implementation of that report and the creation of the NHS.

Was there an actual vote against the Beveridge report???? I know that Churchill was lukewarm towards some of it but the conservative manifesto for the 1945 election shows that they were planning to introduce some of it if they had regained power.

There was a section on setting up a National Insurance system and on Health it says that -

"Everyone will contribute to the cost, and no one will be denied the attention, the treatment or the appliances he requires because he cannot afford them,"

Now, it does not say free at the point of use but the following newsreel of Henry Willink Churchill's Minister of Health explaining their White Paper of 1944 does say

"There will be no charge for treatment" this would cover any medicines, specialist advice and hospital treatment.
And in the next sentence he talks about a "National Health Service"

It was "not a cut and dried scheme" and the proposals were for discussion in parliament and the whole country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyjbUK88CB4

I must admit I did expect Harry Enfield to appear as Grayson together with Mr Cholmondley Warner at some stage!!

More seriously it does show the intent of the Tories if they had got into power again. Whether they would have carried this intention through of course is another matter and I know many among you will dismiss it out of hand.

Undoubtedly it would have been different in some aspects of the final Labour NHS (in particular the Tories did not plan to nationalise all the local voluntary hospitals and take control away from the local authorities as Labour did) and this probably in part explains why they voted so firmly against Labour final version( which in itself was not supported by all those in government. Herbert Morrison for example was against transferring hospitals from the Local authorities to Central Government.

It is also quite possibly true that the Conservatives were guilty, as many parties out of government are, of opposition for oppositions sake; they couldn't implement their policy and didn't want anyone else to bring in an alternative.

Whatever the reason it was a mistake in my view because it has given Labour supporters the excuse down the years to say that there would have been no NHS without Labour.

I'm not sure In agree with this. What I do agree with is that you cannot take away from Labour the praise for giving us a National Health Service. The Conservatives and Liberals cannot claim this.

What they can say however is that they were part of a National Consensus arising out of the Beveridge report which saw that whichever party had got to power in 1945 it is probable that we would have had some form of National Health Service.

Different versions no doubt. And to be honest I have no idea whether Labours version which has lasted to this day was the best model or whether a less centralised model would have worked better in the long run.

But a National Health Service was probably inevitable after Beveridge.

l

[Elwood Blues]

I didn't say that, did I? The rest you can work out for yourself.

No you are right. I phrased that badly

What I meant to say was why wouldn't we be having a vaccine under the NHS.

And by that I presume you meant there would have no NHS if not for Labour.

My separate post in response to Eric gives you my view on this

[Eric the Half a Bee]

No you are right. I phrased that badly

What I meant to say was why wouldn't we be having a vaccine under the NHS.

And by that I presume you meant there would have no NHS if not for Labour.

My separate post in response to Eric gives you my view on this

This is a genuine question to which I have no answer. I could look it up on google, but I think it would be more interesting added to the mix in this thread.

Are America having a mass vaccination program and is it free for everyone?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

This is a genuine question to which I have no answer. I could look it up on google, but I think it would be more interesting added to the mix in this thread.

Are America having a mass vaccination program and is it free for everyone?

Once asked, needed to find out. America is paying for all of its citizens to have Covid vaccinations, a decision made by the Republicans. I'm glad.

[Tuerto]

No you are right. I phrased that badly

What I meant to say was why wouldn't we be having a vaccine under the NHS.

And by that I presume you meant there would have no NHS if not for Labour.

My separate post in response to Eric gives you my view on this

Yes, i don't believe that we would have an NHS if it wasn't for Labour, although Blair did more than enough to privatise it through the back door.

[Feedback]

I’m still trying to get my head round the OP assertion that we are currently taxed more than anytime in last 46 years?

This Conservative government collects more in taxes than any other government in history

[Feedback]

Yes, i don't believe that we would have an NHS if it wasn't for Labour, although Blair did more than enough to privatise it through the back door.

Since the inception of the NHS we've had a Conservative government for considerably longer than a Labour government, yet we still have the NHS.

No Tory Government is going to remove free at point of use, no matter what you think.

[Tuerto]

Since the inception of the NHS we've had a Conservative government for considerably longer than a Labour government, yet we still have the NHS.

No Tory Government is going to remove free at point of use, no matter what you think.

Yup, because they wouldn't ****ing dare

[Rjk]

Since the inception of the NHS we've had a Conservative government for considerably longer than a Labour government, yet we still have the NHS.

No Tory Government is going to remove free at point of use, no matter what you think.

there are certainly senior Tories who would very much like to do away with the NHS, because they truly believe that the free market would deliver better value - always and In every scenario.

[Citizen's Nephew]

there are certainly senior Tories who would very much like to do away with the NHS, because they truly believe that the free market would deliver better value - always and In every scenario.

The Britannia Unchained gang includes Patel, Raab and Truss. These people are truly scary.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Was there an actual vote against the Beveridge report???? I know that Churchill was lukewarm towards some of it but the conservative manifesto for the 1945 election shows that they were planning to introduce some of it if they had regained power.

Until political party manifesto promises made during election campaigns are made a legal requirement they are just not worth the paper they are written on. I'm tired of all elected parties getting away with not implementing their election manifestos or twisting them like the rules in Animal Farm.

We would have far more people interested and voting if parties and politicians had to keep their election promises.

And just to add, I am one of those who think they would never have followed through in 1945. It's just not in Tory DNA. So thank goodness it's just an academic discussion (one I find interesting BTW so I'm not arguing for the sake of it).

[the other bob wilson]

The Britannia Unchained gang includes Patel, Raab and Truss. These people are truly scary.

But they're trying their best, they got Brexit done and just imagine if Corbyn was PM now - I think that's all of the boxes on the check list ticked.

[Citizen's Nephew]

But they're trying their best, they got Brexit done and just imagine if Corbyn was PM now - I think that's all of the boxes on the check list ticked.

Yup. That's them all done.