Bacuna

[Enoch Mort]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to exactly how much the transfer fee was and exactly how much Bacuna is earning, so that we can all make an informed decision as to whether it was a reasonable bit of business or not. If you don't have this information then it is just guesswork and supposition on your behalf, hardly grounds for insulting our ex Manager in the way you have.

I think his transfer fee was £3.1m which, if you looked at the Reading messageboards at the time was regarded by their fans as good business. The fee is not an issue for me but I think the 4 and a half year contract was too long and if you research his salary online £27k per week comes upon a number of sites and has also been quoted on here in the past as being on a par with Morrison and second only to Smithies. When playing midfield he has never looked value for money to me. In terms of insulting our ex manager, as far as I am concerned this is one of many reasons to do so.

[City123]

I think his transfer fee was £3.1m which, if you looked at the Reading messageboards at the time was regarded by their fans as good business. The fee is not an issue for me but I think the 4 and a half year contract was too long and if you research his salary online £27k per week comes upon a number of sites and has also been quoted on here in the past as being on a par with Morrison and second only to Smithies. When playing midfield he has never looked value for money to me. In terms of insulting our ex manager, as far as I am concerned this is one of many reasons to do so.

Bacuna's with Unique Sports Management isn't he? I'm sure a 4 and a half year deal for a middling Championship player while we were in the Prem had nothing to do with him being with Warnock's son's agency

[dml1954]

I think his transfer fee was £3.1m which, if you looked at the Reading messageboards at the time was regarded by their fans as good business. The fee is not an issue for me but I think the 4 and a half year contract was too long and if you research his salary online £27k per week comes upon a number of sites and has also been quoted on here in the past as being on a par with Morrison and second only to Smithies. When playing midfield he has never looked value for money to me. In terms of insulting our ex manager, as far as I am concerned this is one of many reasons to do so.

So you don't really know what the fee was or how much he earns. The length of contract means very little nowadays anyway. I actually agree with you in terms of Bacunas position in the team. I wouldn't have him in any team that I picked because to me he is lazy and gets caught out of position too often. That isn't down to his lack of ability, its his attitude on the pitch. That is something that you only find out when he is at the club unfortunately. Every player signed is a gamble to some extent. Some come off, others don't. As to your attitude to Warnock, you don't have to like him but to engage in snide remarks and direct insults is childish in the extreme and very disrespectful to a man who picked the club up by its bootstraps, connected the club to the fans for the first time in years and took us to the Premier League on a shoestring budget within 18 months. Something that I will never forget anyway.

[The Lone Gunman]

I actually agree with you in terms of Bacunas position in the team. I wouldn't have him in any team that I picked because to me he is lazy and gets caught out of position too often. That isn't down to his lack of ability, its his attitude on the pitch. That is something that you only find out when he is at the club unfortunately.

Are you serious? Bacuna wasn't some unknown youngster when Warnock signed him on a four-and-a-half year deal for a reported fee of £4 million. He was 27 years of age, had previously played 116 league games for Aston Villa and had made 59 Championship appearances for Reading. So are you suggesting Warnock knew nothing about Bacuna's attitude and abilities and just took a wild, speculative punt?

I'm interested in some of your comments about the former City boss. You suggest Warnock "connected the club to the fans for the first time in years." It follows, therefore, that you believe there had previously been a disconnection between the club and its fans. So who do you reckon was responsible for bringing about that situation?

[dml1954]

Are you serious? Bacuna wasn't some unknown youngster when Warnock signed him on a four-and-a-half year deal for a reported fee of £4 million. He was 27 years of age, had previously played 116 league games for Aston Villa and had made 59 Championship appearances for Reading. So are you suggesting Warnock knew nothing about Bacuna's attitude and abilities and just took a wild, speculative punt?

I'm interested in some of your comments about the former City boss. You suggest Warnock "connected the club to the fans for the first time in years." It follows, therefore, that you believe there had previously been a disconnection between the club and its fans. So who do you reckon was responsible for bringing about that situation?

See you have added another £1m onto Bacunas fee, so you have no idea how much it was either. It was undisclosed but a number of ‘sources’ indicate around £3m. A manager only finds out was a players attitude and motivation is when he sees him on the training ground and when the chips are down in the first team. Perhaps you think that the selling team should point out his defects when the negotiations are going on !! The disconnect between the club and fans was down to Slade and then Trollope's style of management, playing players out of position, lack of direction in the teams tactics etc etc - no passion or charisma mainly. Warnock changed that in the space of about two months, particularly by bringing Bamba in. You can just carry on your vendetta against the club heirarchy on your own by the way - its just bloody boring now.

[the other bob wilson]

So you don't really know what the fee was or how much he earns. The length of contract means very little nowadays anyway. I actually agree with you in terms of Bacunas position in the team. I wouldn't have him in any team that I picked because to me he is lazy and gets caught out of position too often. That isn't down to his lack of ability, its his attitude on the pitch. That is something that you only find out when he is at the club unfortunately. Every player signed is a gamble to some extent. Some come off, others don't. As to your attitude to Warnock, you don't have to like him but to engage in snide remarks and direct insults is childish in the extreme and very disrespectful to a man who picked the club up by its bootstraps, connected the club to the fans for the first time in years and took us to the Premier League on a shoestring budget within 18 months. Something that I will never forget anyway.

Hang on a sec, if you're not willing to accept the widely reported fee we paid for Bacuna, how can you claim that Warnock only had a "shoestring" budget in 17/18? How do you know that? It seems to me that any manager who can afford to make a signing like Gary Madine (with his reported fee of £6 million) is hardly operating on a shoestring budget.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Warnock was very good at a certain type of signing (Bosmans, usually from lower division clubs) and woeful when it came to players bought for significant fees and when he did sign one who has been a regular in the Premiership this season, he kept on leaving him out!

As for Bacuna, I think that, if he was really seen as a replacement for Gunnarsson, he's been a poor one because he has little of the tactical discipline that Gunnar did and he certainly doesn't possess the same leadership qualities. I do feel sorry for him this season though because he's been shifted around from pillar to post. He was struggling at right back in Neil Harris' latter days here and I'm not convinced by him as an attacking player - for me, his stamina and running power makes him a natural box to box midfielder and I agree that he might be worth a try as a right wing back.

[dml1954]

Hang on a sec, if you're not willing to accept the widely reported fee we paid for Bacuna, how can you claim that Warnock only had a "shoestring" budget in 17/18? How do you know that? It seems to me that any manager who can afford to make a signing like Gary Madine (with his reported fee of £6 million) is hardly operating on a shoestring budget.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Warnock was very good at a certain type of signing (Bosmans, usually from lower division clubs) and woeful when it came to players bought for significant fees and when he did sign one who has been a regular in the Premiership this season, he kept on leaving him out!

As for Bacuna, I think that, if he was really seen as a replacement for Gunnarsson, he's been a poor one because he has little of the tactical discipline that Gunnar did and he certainly doesn't possess the same leadership qualities. I do feel sorry for him this season though because he's been shifted around from pillar to post. He was struggling at right back in Neil Harris' latter days here and I'm not convinced by him as an attacking player - for me, his stamina and running power makes him a natural box to box midfielder and I agree that he might be worth a try as a right wing back.

Warnock got us into the Premier League whilst spending around £10m including the Madine fee. If that's not a shoestring budget these days, I don't know what is. Also, I didn't say that the fee for Bacuna wasn't £3m, it might have been but it was undisclosed, as are his wages and I was challenging the previous posters opinion about Warnock wasting money on him. In order to ascertain that, you would need to know exactly how much he was earning and the exact fee, which no one does. Another point I would make about some of Warnocks signings (especially Madine and Bacuna) is that any manager trying to bring players in during the January window is going to have to pay an inflated fee and accept longer and more expensive player contracts. Its just a fact of life nowadays, as most clubs don’t really want to sell and players aren’t keen to uproot themselves either, at that time of year. Continually criticising Warnock for his signings ignores all the good things he did for the club and is unfair in my opinion. PS. I wouldn't play Bacuna at right wing back in preference to NG, Sang or Osei-tutu. To me he is an ok squad player but thats about it.

[Hilts]

So you don't really know what the fee was or how much he earns. The length of contract means very little nowadays anyway. I actually agree with you in terms of Bacunas position in the team. I wouldn't have him in any team that I picked because to me he is lazy and gets caught out of position too often. That isn't down to his lack of ability, its his attitude on the pitch. That is something that you only find out when he is at the club unfortunately. Every player signed is a gamble to some extent. Some come off, others don't. As to your attitude to Warnock, you don't have to like him but to engage in snide remarks and direct insults is childish in the extreme and very disrespectful to a man who picked the club up by its bootstraps, connected the club to the fans for the first time in years and took us to the Premier League on a shoestring budget within 18 months. Something that I will never forget anyway.

Length of contract means very little nowadays???? Utter Rubbish.

[cardiff55]

Length of contract means very little nowadays???? Utter Rubbish.

To be fair, Slade got us to 8th (I think?) in his only full season and had to offload a huge number of players and replace them with loans, and lower division players like Revell. Admittedly is was boring stuff, as was Trollope's. When Warnock came in he did a good job and got us to mid table, so he was on a par with Russell Slade. He made some good signings in Hoilett and Bamba, and then again with Etheridge the following season, and Nelson at the start of last season. He did spend lots of money in the PL and failed. He was failing again when he was removed as we were playing the same turgid stuff under him as we were with Slade, yet Slade gets all the stick. I do know Warnock got us up and deserves the credit for that, but then he also deserves criticism for us being relegated too.

And then came Harris, with more boring turgid football, and again we were inconsistent, great away wins and poor home defeats. And now McCarthy, and we are again inconsistent, a superb run followed by a slump and again turgid boring football yet again.

I don;t use every opportunity to criticise the club, especially Tan but nor do I hold Warnock in huge high esteem like some. I do like McCarthy but at the moment it'ss the same old stuff. Still we are 8th, but if we keep going on like the last few weeks we could end up back in 14th or 15th like when he came through the door.

As of Bacuna, he does start a lot of games for us so managers clearly rate him as a footballer, but it was a bit of a groan when he was signed ( for anywhere between £1 and £10m!!), but as dml says, January is a time where players and their agents have the buying club over a barrel for wages and contract length. We cannot just ship out players who are under contract, especially in the current financial crisis, so I am sure he will be a useful player for us for the next 2 years.

[dml1954]

Length of contract means very little nowadays???? Utter Rubbish.

Don't know what world you live in but it isn't the real one. If what you say is true, players would all see out their contracts to the bitter end and not get sold. If a player wants to leave a club he will invariably get his wish, no matter how long is left on his contract. Clubs like longer contracts because it means they can sell whenever they want and get a better fee. Players like Bale are the exception as he is milking it for all he can get at Real Madrid, presumably because of the way they have treated him.

[Gnojek]

The signings of Damour and Warnock paint an accurate picture of Warnock's transfer dealings.

I really liked Damour and thought he was an excellent addition to the squad. Neat and tidy with a good pass, who also racked up a lot of yards. The fact he was unknown, came from an unheralded second-tier French team and arrived on a free transfer made it all the better. I remember Warnock saying the recommendation came from the same source that had suggested he sign Drogba in his younger years. Warnock was (and no doubt still is) great at things like this.

However, Bacuna is the polar opposite. In horse-racing terms, he's "exposed". You know what you're going to get and he's unlikely to make a real splash. Add in the fee and the contract length and it's not good business. Fair enough, he's still in-and-around the first XI every week and I don't dislike him, just that he's a bit too much "6/10" for me.

Damour and Bacuna......

[the other bob wilson]

I seem to remember Bacuna being touted as a Gunnarsson replacement when he was signed.

[Des Parrot]

On the other hand Curaçao are top of their World Cup group.

[NYCBlue]

Remember when Tan said that Slade could be City's Arsene Wenger? Good times.

[The Lone Gunman]

Remember when Tan said that Slade could be City's Arsene Wenger? Good times.

"He (Slade) was identified by me. We now have a little problem with Leyton Orient, but that is being sorted out. Dave Jones wasn't recruited by me. Malky Mackay wasn't recruited by me. In a way, Ole wasn't recruited by me. I said now, the next manager I will select and I think that he will make a good manager for us. All I can say to the Cardiff fans is give him a chance, give him a break. I hope Russell Slade can beat Arsene Wenger's record." (Vincent Tan, 30/09/2014)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...g-manager.html

[cardiff55]

"He (Slade) was identified by me. We now have a little problem with Leyton Orient, but that is being sorted out. Dave Jones wasn't recruited by me. Malky Mackay wasn't recruited by me. In a way, Ole wasn't recruited by me. I said now, the next manager I will select and I think that he will make a good manager for us. All I can say to the Cardiff fans is give him a chance, give him a break. I hope Russell Slade can beat Arsene Wenger's record." (Vincent Tan, 30/09/2014)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...g-manager.html

Well he wasn't wrong was he? He selected him and he did a good job under difficult circumstances, and then he sacked him for finishing 8th, but did not sack Warnock for finishing 12th? (Admitedly the starting point was lower for Warnock). All managers eventually get the push though.

[Hilts]

Don't know what world you live in but it isn't the real one. If what you say is true, players would all see out their contracts to the bitter end and not get sold. If a player wants to leave a club he will invariably get his wish, no matter how long is left on his contract. Clubs like longer contracts because it means they can sell whenever they want and get a better fee. Players like Bale are the exception as he is milking it for all he can get at Real Madrid, presumably because of the way they have treated him.

Its simple.

They mean something as if hes any good hes under contract and leave for a fee and hopefully everyones happy.

Alternatively it means something as sh!t signings can sit on their contracts and clubs cant get them off the books but the player picks up wages the club doesnt think hes worth.

Weve had players weve paid off just to get them off the books. Had to do it as they are under contract.

Vassell im sure hed be gone on a free this summer wont happen as hes under contract.

So the contact isnt worthless.

Real world😂

[surge]

I recall Dalman suggesting a significant lack of preparation going into premier league season which pre-empted January window desperation and being an easy target for agents/selling clubs. Following summer had a transfer strategy but it was a bad one which has made Bacuna and every other individual look worse since.

Bacuna is a very useful squad player, and he did really well in a midfield three when Sanderson was still being trusted as RB, but isn't regular first choice in most of the formations we use and hasn't justified being one of the rumoured higher earners.

(He is also a player who travels further than most during international windows so some mitigation for recent performances).