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Thread: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

  1. #21

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by 19bluebirds27 View Post
    Now that he has been found guilty - can our team stop taking the knee.

    As this was the catalyst it will be right and symbolic to end the knee taking on this verdict.
    Justice has been served, now letís move on with the work that has to be done.
    Maybe instead of kneeling, players in the championship and above could give 20% of their salary to causes that fight injustice? Any takers? Okay just keep kneeling then.

  2. #22

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    A few thoughts on this..

    1) It is great news but if anyone followed the trial it was obvious he was guilty. It says something to the state of the US that we were all worried he would get off.

    2) This is the start not the end... the US has to address the racism in its institutions.. will they? not with help of the GOP and white evangelical Christians, who are absolutely fecking bonkers. So there is a long way to go.

    3) The 'left' doesn't help the cause with statements like 'defund the police'.. because that is actually NOT what it means... it means investing in better and more appropriate services and more community ownership, e.g. more mental health workers addressing issues rather than sending unqualified and unskilled police officers to deal with problems. They need to get their messaging right, because the right wing will pick up on anything and label it as communism, and Americans are hysterically paranoid about communism and socialism without a clue of what they are, the difference between the two and that they have hugely benefitted from elements of socialism.

    4) Thank God for mobile phones - there hasn't been an increase in racism in the US... but an increase of exposing it. This is exactly why Kaepernick took the knee - to expose this.

    5) Taking the knee (in the UK)... I think in the UK I fear it has become 'tokenism' and achieving nothing. However, it has exposed a complete and utter denial that racism exists in the UK, look at the Government report that said there wasn't institutionalised racism - then finding out experts were misinterpreted and that 10 downing street rewrote parts of the report. Again, the increase in hate crimes against black and asian people is indicative of the underlying racism in Britain, stoked by farage and his 'clan'.

    As an aside the Tories are in discussion with the Police to outlaw filming police. They Tories hid and change reports on race issues. The Tories are even hiding details of deaths of the windrush victims because they want to avoid scrutiny.

    We have a long way to go in the UK.

  3. #23

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    I would , if there was a vote , ask for the knee gesture to remain , however there are plenty of people out there who want it to end and put up very fair and reasoned arguments for that .

    Sadly there is a big element of blatantly racist idiots in this country who want the knee gesture stopped because they don't like black people .

  4. #24

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blue View Post
    One right decision doesnít end injustice. It also doesnít end on line hate. Iím sorry such empathy with the oppressed offends you.
    Did you not read my last sentence!

    Some teams are doing it some have stopped, Itís becoming a bit disjointed and loosing its way.

    Just to clarify for you - My suggestion was that it started and it should end with this unfortunate tragedy now has the correct verdict.
    The fight to eradicate racism not only from the game but society as a whole should continue.

  5. #25

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by 19bluebirds27 View Post
    Did you not read my last sentence!

    Some teams are doing it some have stopped, It’s becoming a bit disjointed and loosing its way.

    Just to clarify for you - My suggestion was that it started and it should end with this unfortunate tragedy now has the correct verdict.
    The fight to eradicate racism not only from the game but society as a whole should continue.
    How can it be losing its way if we are talking about it? Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to draw attention to racism.
    We are discussing racism, so it must be effective.

  6. #26

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    11 hours to decide? Seems a long time to decide the bleeding obvious. I cannot see how he even tried to have a defence.

  7. #27

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Watching it unfold live, you could sense the anxiety of the crowd of people that gathered outside the courthouse in Minneapolis. Despite the overwhelming evidence, including testimonies from witnesses, including an off duty fire marshal, EMTs, police dispatcher, fellow police officers condemning the use of the knee on the neck and most importantly the umpteen angles of actual footage of this murder, there was still a seed of doubt that this man could be found not guilty.

    Fortunately he has been found guilty and it feels like this is the first step of many to address systemic racism, because lets be clear justice was not served by this guilty verdict, this is accountability.

  8. #28

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    11 hours to decide? Seems a long time to decide the bleeding obvious. I cannot see how he even tried to have a defence.
    I often wonder how some defence lawyers sleep at night. I know everybody accused has a right to a defence, and they will say they are only doing their job, but how the **** can you try to get someone off, when you even know yourself that they are guilty?

  9. #29

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I often wonder how some defence lawyers sleep at night. I know everybody accused has a right to a defence, and they will say they are only doing their job, but how the **** can you try to get someone off, when you even know yourself that they are guilty?
    I don't think that it's that simple. There's also the jury to get through, and the summing up from the judge, plus interventions during proceedings.

  10. #30

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    I don't think that it's that simple. There's also the jury to get through, and the summing up from the judge, plus interventions during proceedings.
    What has all that got to do with trying to defend a guy that you know yourself is guilty?
    If Chauvins defence could have somehow got him off with some kind of miraculous technicality, they would have, and wouldnít have blinked an eye at letting a guilty man walk.
    As i said, everyone is entitled to a defence, but youíve got to have some teal thick skin to try to defend the indefensible, in a court of law.

  11. #31

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I often wonder how some defence lawyers sleep at night. I know everybody accused has a right to a defence, and they will say they are only doing their job, but how the **** can you try to get someone off, when you even know yourself that they are guilty?
    The words Orange Juice spring to mind.

  12. #32

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    What has all that got to do with trying to defend a guy that you know yourself is guilty?
    If Chauvins defence could have somehow got him off with some kind of miraculous technicality, they would have, and wouldn’t have blinked an eye at letting a guilty man walk.
    As i said, everyone is entitled to a defence, but you’ve got to have some teal thick skin to try to defend the indefensible, in a court of law.
    I think in these cases, the defence's job is to make sure the prosecution and police have done their jobs properly.

    If you have a system where people are pretty much guilty before any trial, and there are countries like that, then that makes it easier for innocent people in other cases to be found guilty. It's easier for the state to go for their enemies.

    So it's to keep the other side in check by always providing a defence, no matter what.

  13. #33

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I think in these cases, the defence's job is to make sure the prosecution and police have done their jobs properly.

    If you have a system where people are pretty much guilty before any trial, and there are countries like that, then that makes it easier for innocent people in other cases to be found guilty. It's easier for the state to go for their enemies.

    So it's to keep the other side in check by always providing a defence, no matter what.
    An interesting article regarding this subject:
    https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/01/peopl...y-job-7750268/

    By the way, has anyone on here been on jury service and who had to mull over what the concept of 'beyond reasonable doubt' really means? Yes, the literal meaning can be looked up but it's a tad nebulous in one's own mind perhaps.

  14. #34

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I think in these cases, the defence's job is to make sure the prosecution and police have done their jobs properly.

    If you have a system where people are pretty much guilty before any trial, and there are countries like that, then that makes it easier for innocent people in other cases to be found guilty. It's easier for the state to go for their enemies.

    So it's to keep the other side in check by always providing a defence, no matter what.
    I agree with everything youíve said Lardy, and the last thing anyone of us would want is an innocent person to be found guilty of a crime.
    The point iím trying to make though, is if a small error had been made by the police or prosecution in a case like this, the defence could have got this guy off on a technicality. How many guilty people over the yrs have got off on a ďtechnicalityĒ The defence then go home, after doing their job correctly, and a guilty man( that every man and his dog knows is guilty) walks.
    Thatís a big difference in a case where the evidence is sketchy or flimsy.

  15. #35

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I agree with everything you’ve said Lardy, and the last thing anyone of us would want is an innocent person to be found guilty of a crime.
    The point i’m trying to make though, is if a small error had been made by the police or prosecution in a case like this, the defence could have got this guy off on a technicality. How many guilty people over the yrs have got off on a “technicality” The defence then go home, after doing their job correctly, and a guilty man( that every man and his dog knows is guilty) walks.
    That’s a big difference in a case where the evidence is sketchy or flimsy.
    I thought your point was 'how do defence lawyers live with themselves for defending guilty people'.

    If it's that sometimes they get off with a technicality and it could have happened here, then ... ok yes this is true.

  16. #36

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I thought your point was 'how do defence lawyers live with themselves for defending guilty people'.

    If it's that sometimes they get off with a technicality and it could have happened here, then ... ok yes this is true.
    Guilty people that they know are guilty before the trial begins. If a defence lawyer had got Chauvin off on a technicality, how could he sleep at night?
    I couldnít, then iím not in that possition.
    I suppose itís a question that only a defence lawyer could answer. There must be a few on here 😂

  17. #37

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Guilty people that they know are guilty before the trial begins. If a defence lawyer had got Chauvin off on a technicality, how could he sleep at night?
    I couldn’t, then i’m not in that possition.
    I suppose it’s a question that only a defence lawyer could answer. There must be a few on here ��
    You've got to be a certain type of person, but also we need that certain type of person to have a legal system that won't be corrupted.

  18. #38

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Guilty people that they know are guilty before the trial begins. If a defence lawyer had got Chauvin off on a technicality, how could he sleep at night?
    I couldn’t, then i’m not in that possition.
    I suppose it’s a question that only a defence lawyer could answer. There must be a few on here ��
    It would be the jury that decide though. The Judge can intervene if he thinks that the points being raised aren't relevant. I sort of agree with you in this case, Lardy put it well. The defence lawyer is putting over a case for the defendant, however flimsy that may be. I'm glad that is the case.

  19. #39

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Bail revoked
    Probably for his own good

  20. #40

    Re: Derek Chauvin GUILTY

    If you think that Chauvin was innocent you are a racist.
    it's that simple.

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