Derek Chauvin GUILTY

[cardiff55]

11 hours to decide? Seems a long time to decide the bleeding obvious. I cannot see how he even tried to have a defence.

[SuisseBluebird]

Watching it unfold live, you could sense the anxiety of the crowd of people that gathered outside the courthouse in Minneapolis. Despite the overwhelming evidence, including testimonies from witnesses, including an off duty fire marshal, EMTs, police dispatcher, fellow police officers condemning the use of the knee on the neck and most importantly the umpteen angles of actual footage of this murder, there was still a seed of doubt that this man could be found not guilty.

Fortunately he has been found guilty and it feels like this is the first step of many to address systemic racism, because lets be clear justice was not served by this guilty verdict, this is accountability.

[William Treseder]

11 hours to decide? Seems a long time to decide the bleeding obvious. I cannot see how he even tried to have a defence.

I often wonder how some defence lawyers sleep at night. I know everybody accused has a right to a defence, and they will say they are only doing their job, but how the **** can you try to get someone off, when you even know yourself that they are guilty?

[Tuerto]

I often wonder how some defence lawyers sleep at night. I know everybody accused has a right to a defence, and they will say they are only doing their job, but how the **** can you try to get someone off, when you even know yourself that they are guilty?

I don't think that it's that simple. There's also the jury to get through, and the summing up from the judge, plus interventions during proceedings.

[William Treseder]

I don't think that it's that simple. There's also the jury to get through, and the summing up from the judge, plus interventions during proceedings.

What has all that got to do with trying to defend a guy that you know yourself is guilty?
If Chauvins defence could have somehow got him off with some kind of miraculous technicality, they would have, and wouldn’t have blinked an eye at letting a guilty man walk.
As i said, everyone is entitled to a defence, but you’ve got to have some teal thick skin to try to defend the indefensible, in a court of law.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I often wonder how some defence lawyers sleep at night. I know everybody accused has a right to a defence, and they will say they are only doing their job, but how the **** can you try to get someone off, when you even know yourself that they are guilty?

The words Orange Juice spring to mind.

[lardy]

What has all that got to do with trying to defend a guy that you know yourself is guilty?
If Chauvins defence could have somehow got him off with some kind of miraculous technicality, they would have, and wouldn’t have blinked an eye at letting a guilty man walk.
As i said, everyone is entitled to a defence, but you’ve got to have some teal thick skin to try to defend the indefensible, in a court of law.

I think in these cases, the defence's job is to make sure the prosecution and police have done their jobs properly.

If you have a system where people are pretty much guilty before any trial, and there are countries like that, then that makes it easier for innocent people in other cases to be found guilty. It's easier for the state to go for their enemies.

So it's to keep the other side in check by always providing a defence, no matter what.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I think in these cases, the defence's job is to make sure the prosecution and police have done their jobs properly.

If you have a system where people are pretty much guilty before any trial, and there are countries like that, then that makes it easier for innocent people in other cases to be found guilty. It's easier for the state to go for their enemies.

So it's to keep the other side in check by always providing a defence, no matter what.

An interesting article regarding this subject:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/01/peopl...y-job-7750268/

By the way, has anyone on here been on jury service and who had to mull over what the concept of 'beyond reasonable doubt' really means? Yes, the literal meaning can be looked up but it's a tad nebulous in one's own mind perhaps.

[William Treseder]

I think in these cases, the defence's job is to make sure the prosecution and police have done their jobs properly.

If you have a system where people are pretty much guilty before any trial, and there are countries like that, then that makes it easier for innocent people in other cases to be found guilty. It's easier for the state to go for their enemies.

So it's to keep the other side in check by always providing a defence, no matter what.

I agree with everything you’ve said Lardy, and the last thing anyone of us would want is an innocent person to be found guilty of a crime.
The point i’m trying to make though, is if a small error had been made by the police or prosecution in a case like this, the defence could have got this guy off on a technicality. How many guilty people over the yrs have got off on a “technicality” The defence then go home, after doing their job correctly, and a guilty man( that every man and his dog knows is guilty) walks.
That’s a big difference in a case where the evidence is sketchy or flimsy.

[lardy]

I agree with everything you’ve said Lardy, and the last thing anyone of us would want is an innocent person to be found guilty of a crime.
The point i’m trying to make though, is if a small error had been made by the police or prosecution in a case like this, the defence could have got this guy off on a technicality. How many guilty people over the yrs have got off on a “technicality” The defence then go home, after doing their job correctly, and a guilty man( that every man and his dog knows is guilty) walks.
That’s a big difference in a case where the evidence is sketchy or flimsy.

I thought your point was 'how do defence lawyers live with themselves for defending guilty people'.

If it's that sometimes they get off with a technicality and it could have happened here, then ... ok yes this is true.

[William Treseder]

I thought your point was 'how do defence lawyers live with themselves for defending guilty people'.

If it's that sometimes they get off with a technicality and it could have happened here, then ... ok yes this is true.

Guilty people that they know are guilty before the trial begins. If a defence lawyer had got Chauvin off on a technicality, how could he sleep at night?
I couldn’t, then i’m not in that possition.
I suppose it’s a question that only a defence lawyer could answer. There must be a few on here 😂

[lardy]

Guilty people that they know are guilty before the trial begins. If a defence lawyer had got Chauvin off on a technicality, how could he sleep at night?
I couldn’t, then i’m not in that possition.
I suppose it’s a question that only a defence lawyer could answer. There must be a few on here ��

You've got to be a certain type of person, but also we need that certain type of person to have a legal system that won't be corrupted.

[Tuerto]

Guilty people that they know are guilty before the trial begins. If a defence lawyer had got Chauvin off on a technicality, how could he sleep at night?
I couldn’t, then i’m not in that possition.
I suppose it’s a question that only a defence lawyer could answer. There must be a few on here ��

It would be the jury that decide though. The Judge can intervene if he thinks that the points being raised aren't relevant. I sort of agree with you in this case, Lardy put it well. The defence lawyer is putting over a case for the defendant, however flimsy that may be. I'm glad that is the case.

[WJ99mobile]

Bail revoked

Probably for his own good

[ToTaL ITK]

If you think that Chauvin was innocent you are a racist.
it's that simple.

[willo1927]

How can it be losing its way if we are talking about it? Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to draw attention to racism.
We are discussing racism, so it must be effective.

People who are talking about it are in general normal non racist decent people.
Unfortunately I don't think that taking the knee will make a racist see that what they are is deplorable
To think that it will is nieve

[willo1927]

What has all that got to do with trying to defend a guy that you know yourself is guilty?
If Chauvins defence could have somehow got him off with some kind of miraculous technicality, they would have, and wouldn’t have blinked an eye at letting a guilty man walk.
As i said, everyone is entitled to a defence, but you’ve got to have some teal thick skin to try to defend the indefensible, in a court of law.

But without a defence lawyer we are assuming everyone is guilty
So what's the point in going to court
Should we become a lynchmob society?

[adz-a32]

People who are talking about it are in general normal non racist decent people.
Unfortunately I don't think that taking the knee will make a racist see that what they are is deplorable
To think that it will is nieve

True - you can never reason with racists. However, I hope the discussions are enabling the non-racist people to see the ways that racism can occur and help them in our fight

[William Treseder]

But without a defence lawyer we are assuming everyone is guilty
So what's the point in going to court
Should we become a lynchmob society?

Have you actually read a single word i’ve said on this thread?