Another point at a promotion chasing club for Cardiff City despite Smithies’ howler.

[dml1954]

Almost all fans malign Russell Slade but he did well in his only full season here. With hardly any money compared to what we spend now. He did buy Stuart O'Keefe though for a reported £750k, and Revell, Doyle, Peltier and the 'unforgettable' Gabriel Tamas and a host of loan signings. And the club sold Mason for £3.5m in that season 2015/16, and Kenwynne Jones too. So he did really well. The football was boring, but there again it was under Warnock, Harris and McCarthy- even when we were winning. And over 30 players left the club during his season and a half.

I'm not fan of his but his achievement, with the squad he had , and the lack of money is decent.

If you are ignoring what the type of football was like and just going on what was spent and achieved, then Neil Warnock is head and shoulders above Slade and everybody else in the modern era. He got us into the Premier League on a budget of around £10m (including Madines fee) and got us Hoilett and Bamba on free transfers. Also, you cant tell me that our promotion season in 2017/2018 wasn't enjoyable - we won 27 games and got 90 points, a record for the club. The football under Slade was worse than boring, it was turgid. Some of the football we played under Warnock was also excellent, especially in the first ten games which included the away win at Wolves and the home wins over Villa and Leeds.

[City123]

If you are ignoring what the type of football was like and just going on what was spent and achieved, then Neil Warnock is head and shoulders above Slade and everybody else in the modern era. He got us into the Premier League on a budget of around £10m (including Madines fee) and got us Hoilett and Bamba on free transfers. Also, you cant tell me that our promotion season in 2017/2018 wasn't enjoyable - we won 27 games and got 90 points, a record for the club. The football under Slade was worse than boring, it was turgid. Some of the football we played under Warnock was also excellent, especially in the first ten games which included the away win at Wolves and the home wins over Villa and Leeds.

This is a valid point but you can't point to just those performances as if they're indicative of the entire season, some of the football we played that season was very poor but we managed to grind out wins.

Warnock's spend was fairly similar to Mackay's. Warnock also had the benefit of a fairly strong starting squad, Joe Bennett, Sean Morrison, Bruno Manga, Aron Gunnarsson, Joe Ralls, Anthony Pilkington & Ken Zohore were all already at the club when he arrived.

He then of course spunked £50m over the next two seasons.

[Shrewsbury Blue]

The slightly worrying thing is virtually all of the good results under McCarthy came in his opening 8 games for the club. Two draws and six wins. Since then our form has been such that it would get us relegated. You could argue that the initial good form was down largely to new manager effect and some very hard work closing teams down which would be impossible to reproduce over a season.

For me the just is still out I rather suspect we will be a sort of Millwall next season hard to beat but not good enough for the playoffs. A team of hard working grafters. If they were offering odds on the team in the championship who would draw most games next season I would back us.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Selective data cherry picking if ever I saw it. Why not look at Mick McCarthy’s overall record since he got here - 8 wins, 8 draws and only 3 losses in the 19 games under his charge or to put it another way - 32 points out of the 57 on offer. Not top two form certainly but hardly shabby. A few too many draws obviously but we could easily (and should have) won the last 3 games. We would then have had 38 points out of 57 or 2 points a game which is pretty much promotion form over a whole season.

But.....we didn't, so we didn't. I don't think it's right to accuse selective data cherry-picking and then create an argument based on an alternative universe. I'd just take out the word few and replace it with way too many draws.

[Citizen's Nephew]

The slightly worrying thing is virtually all of the good results under McCarthy came in his opening 8 games for the club. Two draws and six wins. Since then our form has been such that it would get us relegated. You could argue that the initial good form was down largely to new manager effect and some very hard work closing teams down which would be impossible to reproduce over a season.

For me the just is still out I rather suspect we will be a sort of Millwall next season hard to beat but not good enough for the playoffs. A team of hard working grafters. If they were offering odds on the team in the championship who would draw most games next season I would back us.

I agree. I'm not expecting anything to happen under MM that is going to be anything other than mid-table if we're lucky. Carry on with drawing games like we have instead of winning and if we look at it just from a points perspective this season it's the difference between 39 points or the 13 we managed to scrape (or perilously close to 0). He's drawn 8 of those - I think? There's no way a team in that form is anywhere other than...well...OKish.

[surge]

The slightly worrying thing is virtually all of the good results under McCarthy came in his opening 8 games for the club. Two draws and six wins. Since then our form has been such that it would get us relegated. You could argue that the initial good form was down largely to new manager effect and some very hard work closing teams down which would be impossible to reproduce over a season.

For me the just is still out I rather suspect we will be a sort of Millwall next season hard to beat but not good enough for the playoffs. A team of hard working grafters. If they were offering odds on the team in the championship who would draw most games next season I would back us.

What would you describe as being a good result? Drawing away to a side like Brentford is a good result but would have been described as being very good if not for the fact they have only one win in previous six games before we showed up. How much does form and whether side improving or dropping off come into it?

[Rjk]

Based on the average points per game so far under MM, that would yield 77 points over a full season. Which would likely be enough for a 6th or 7th position in most seasons.
I’m sure the PPG will improve slightly too with the last 3 games.

Let’s see what he can do over the course of season before we become too judgemental now.

I think we aren't any better or worse under McCarthy than we were under Harris. Both were capable of getting us to the playoffs with a good run, both are capable of missing out on it. Our results improved drastically under Mccarthy, but the underlying performances didn't really, and the good run was always likely to peter out. I like the formation change - if we commit to a more attack minded version of it - and it does seem that mccarthy has had to deal with more injuries in fairness to him. Mccarthy can be equally frustrating as well - leaving harry Wilson out for leandro bacuna, I'm not convinced he realises you're even allowed to make a substitution before 70 minutes, and I can't recall any of his subs changing the game in our favour.

[Shrewsbury Blue]

Drawing with Brentford was an ok result but nothing special because they are out of form. My biggest problem with McCarthy is he is doing nothing to prepare for next season even though we have no chance of the playoffs. Why not say bring on Kerion Evans and Rubén Cowill for the las 20 minutes? Neither Wilson or Ojo will be with us next season why are we giving them game time.

And his use of subsistutes is infuriating me. He seems to have some inbuilt clock in his head that tells him to make a subsistution exactly on 70 minutes never any earlier or later. Last night the subs did not come on until 72 minutes as the ball did not go out of play for two minutes. Why is he leaving Moore on the field for 90 minutes when he himself admits he is exhausted. We have a potentially good striker in Watters who cannot get on the pitch even after 70 minutes.

My fear for next season is Rubén Cowill will not get on the pitch next season even if he is the next Messi as McCarthy will prefer his old favourite Jonny Williams. Poor old Keifer Moore is going to be worked to death next season. I would not be surprised to see him die of exhaustion on the pitch away at Stoke.

[Hilts]

I think we aren't any better or worse under McCarthy than we were under Harris. Both were capable of getting us to the playoffs with a good run, both are capable of missing out on it. Our results improved drastically under Mccarthy, but the underlying performances didn't really, and the good run was always likely to peter out. I like the formation change - if we commit to a more attack minded version of it - and it does seem that mccarthy has had to deal with more injuries in fairness to him. Mccarthy can be equally frustrating as well - leaving harry Wilson out for leandro bacuna, I'm not convinced he realises you're even allowed to make a substitution before 70 minutes, and I can't recall any of his subs changing the game in our favour.

Wilson v Millwall
Ralls v Blackburn

[Citizen's Nephew]

Wilson v Millwall
Ralls v Blackburn

He brought Ralls on at 63 minutes (which in fairness to MM is an early sub). Ralls scores @ 70mins, for us to go 2-1 up (having been 1-0 earlier) is yellow carded at 75mins, MM now has Ralls on a yellow against Blackburn who were always looking like scoring from open play and Armstrong looking dangerous. What does MM do? Nothing. Blackburn equalise @ 90mins after they make 5 subs immediately after Ralls yellow so our lot now have to deal with wave after wave of fresh attacking BB players! MM brings on his comfort blanket - Johnny Williams - in the 91st min. We draw.

[surge]

.....

My fear for next season is Rubén Cowill will not get on the pitch next season even if he is the next Messi as McCarthy will prefer his old favourite Jonny Williams. Poor old Keifer Moore is going to be worked to death next season. I would not be surprised to see him die of exhaustion on the pitch away at Stoke.

In terms of Mick's favourites Jonny Williams is currently behind Bacuna, Ralls and Ojo but before Colwill and Hoilett.