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Thread: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

  1. #76

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Wales has a population of 3m, England has a population of 55m. Why do you think things should be equal?
    Equal as in sequential spending, England is clearly going to have the lion share as it's bigger as that is basic numbers, I meant as (E.g) if England pays 100 Billion pounds on HS2, Wales should be given the 5 billion that it rightly deserves and not have the project labelled a England and Wales project when not 1 metre of it is in Wales and it's been projected to damage the Welsh economy by 100s of millions of pounds.

    given England (London) is paying for furlough, you can understand them wanting a say in when and where it is put nto place. Furthermore, the reason Wales needed earlier furlough was the disastrous start to the pandemic we had due to Drakeford and some of his policies.
    I'm not aware of there being a money tree in London that they generously give Wales a slice of every year, I was under the impression that there was millions of Welsh people paying taxes every day (in one form or another) that they should rightly be able to call on when people's livelihoods are at risk.

    Wales may have had those resources but they did not have the manpower or the capital to exploit them. The labour came from the midlands and Ireland, the capital from Scotland and Yorkshire.
    Australia seems able to get people to provide manpower half way across the world and hundreds of miles in the middle of the driest areas of the country (and the world) to work the mines, I'm sure the trek up to the valleys wasn't too difficult for people. In addition to this London doesn't happen to magically work up enough man power to run all the offices in London, people move for employment, it's not a new thing.

    As for renewable energy, we aren't going to create a sustainable economy from this alone. Wales currently has a fiscal deficit of £15bn per annum, and if we taxed all economic activity at 40% of GDP in the way the UK does, we would need to increase our GDP by £37.5bn just to cover existing public spending. Our current GDP is £70bn so we'd have to increase economic activity by over 50% overnight.
    Wales is already a net exporter of renewable energy with extremely little investment or effort, with the move to electric cars alone this is going to have to come from somewhere. Also a strong economy isn't centred on 1 industry alone, it is only an example of 1 strong pillar.

    Wales also has around 1 in 4 workers in the public sector compared to 1 in 5 for the UK. If we have the same amount of funding then around 75k public sector jobs will be lost as we won't have the money to pay for them. That's 5% of the workforce. If we don't want to lose these jobs then we have to increase taxation, on one of the already poorest regions. Inward investment would dry up and would simply locate over the border.
    Wales has a higher GDP than a lot of European countries e.g Portugal. A lot of companies announced financial results from their HQs regardless of where the money is generated, unsurprisingly these are all in London so that severely hides the financial potential.

    Plaid only care about making Wales Welsh speaking, they really don't care about much else.
    This is clearly untrue and misleading, the fact they want free at point social care for everyone shows this so try not to be as narrow minded.

  2. #77

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Wozza16 View Post
    Equal as in sequential spending, England is clearly going to have the lion share as it's bigger as that is basic numbers, I meant as (E.g) if England pays 100 Billion pounds on HS2, Wales should be given the 5 billion that it rightly deserves and not have the project labelled a England and Wales project when not 1 metre of it is in Wales and it's been projected to damage the Welsh economy by 100s of millions of pounds.



    I'm not aware of there being a money tree in London that they generously give Wales a slice of every year, I was under the impression that there was millions of Welsh people paying taxes every day (in one form or another) that they should rightly be able to call on when people's livelihoods are at risk.



    Australia seems able to get people to provide manpower half way across the world and hundreds of miles in the middle of the driest areas of the country (and the world) to work the mines, I'm sure the trek up to the valleys wasn't too difficult for people. In addition to this London doesn't happen to magically work up enough man power to run all the offices in London, people move for employment, it's not a new thing.



    Wales is already a net exporter of renewable energy with extremely little investment or effort, with the move to electric cars alone this is going to have to come from somewhere. Also a strong economy isn't centred on 1 industry alone, it is only an example of 1 strong pillar.



    Wales has a higher GDP than a lot of European countries e.g Portugal. A lot of companies announced financial results from their HQs regardless of where the money is generated, unsurprisingly these are all in London so that severely hides the financial potential.



    This is clearly untrue and misleading, the fact they want free at point social care for everyone shows this so try not to be as narrow minded.
    You can't have something that can cost 1000 a week provided free to a elderly bloke with 3 million in the bank

    Social care has to be means tested in the same way some welfare benefits are

    Its economic madness to provide free social care to an aging population , some of whom are wealthy enough to afford to pay for it

  3. #78

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    I'm taking the 5th


    probably nearer £2.2trn.


    prior to Covid19 this government were getting towards balancing the books, which wasn't a bad effort overall. However there were social costs involved in doing this

    GDP hit £3.1trn prior to Brexit, then it has fallen and is forecast to be around £2.6trn this year.

    yes, quite considerably. Who knew!


    Wales currently benefits from around £15bn in fiscal transfers each year. That is £5k for every man woman and child. We are not going to make those numbers up by selling water to the English or by developing green energy for sale. Wales' topography does not lend itself to a modern day economy, and as such we need to be careful about what we truly want from independence, if that is the goal. Because economically, we'd be a lot worse off than we are now.[/QUOTE]

    Think the Scottish per head is the same or perhaps more , why would you look a gift horse in the mouth and become independent , when you can take all this dosh in and just moan for more when it goes wrong or say its not my fault its Westminsters

  4. #79

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Wozza16 View Post
    Equal as in sequential spending, England is clearly going to have the lion share as it's bigger as that is basic numbers, I meant as (E.g) if England pays 100 Billion pounds on HS2, Wales should be given the 5 billion that it rightly deserves and not have the project labelled a England and Wales project when not 1 metre of it is in Wales and it's been projected to damage the Welsh economy by 100s of millions of pounds.



    I'm not aware of there being a money tree in London that they generously give Wales a slice of every year, I was under the impression that there was millions of Welsh people paying taxes every day (in one form or another) that they should rightly be able to call on when people's livelihoods are at risk.



    Australia seems able to get people to provide manpower half way across the world and hundreds of miles in the middle of the driest areas of the country (and the world) to work the mines, I'm sure the trek up to the valleys wasn't too difficult for people. In addition to this London doesn't happen to magically work up enough man power to run all the offices in London, people move for employment, it's not a new thing.



    Wales is already a net exporter of renewable energy with extremely little investment or effort, with the move to electric cars alone this is going to have to come from somewhere. Also a strong economy isn't centred on 1 industry alone, it is only an example of 1 strong pillar.



    Wales has a higher GDP than a lot of European countries e.g Portugal. A lot of companies announced financial results from their HQs regardless of where the money is generated, unsurprisingly these are all in London so that severely hides the financial potential.



    This is clearly untrue and misleading, the fact they want free at point social care for everyone shows this so try not to be as narrow minded.
    ( Wales also has around 1 in 4 workers in the public sector compared to 1 in 5 for the UK. If we have the same amount of funding then around 75k public sector jobs)

    Big risks at play with Independence ; why would Westminster want to leave these UK type pubic sector jobs in Wales , if Wales left the UK , (same in Scotland ) , any separation would come with a cost , such as levelling up of debt at the point of Independence , border controls , trade deals , cost to using or moving form the pound (as per Scotland model) , how we do meet European membership and convergence rules without cost and tax rises , they wont want a poor country on boarding , just look at Greece they were forced by Europe to raise taxes to manager their weak economy in the recession . Who will be Wales major trading partner ,England or Europe if alter that will be interesting ,will need much better airports and docks and infrastructure ?

  5. #80

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    I voted for Eluned Morgan as, having met her, I believe she is an intelligent, honest, conscientious politician who actually cares about people. She would make an excellent first minister.

  6. #81

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I voted for Eluned Morgan as, having met her, I believe she is an intelligent, honest, conscientious politician who actually cares about people. She would make an excellent first minister.
    I agree , she's a very nice person and I hope she takes over from drakeford

  7. #82

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I am not considering voting for plaid

    I could never vote for them

    I would rather vote Liberal
    The way it is going for the liberals in a couple of elections time that would double their vote!

  8. #83

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    The way it is going for the liberals in a couple of elections time that would double their vote!
    they are dead , as are labour in England

    Left of centre people in the UK need a new party they can vote for . In England that's not labour

  9. #84

    Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    they are dead , as are labour in England

    Left of centre people in the UK need a new party they can vote for . In England that's not labour
    Green , Liberal , Labour, merge em all, create alliance with SNP that doesn't include break up UK , bingo. ( with a no return to Europe clause ) voters will follow and your evil Tories crushed 😉

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