+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 8910111213141516171819 LastLast
Results 341 to 360 of 373

Thread: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

  1. #341

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    In the last couple of elections Labour have had a multitude of popular, well thought out policies - while all the Conservatives have offered is Brexit, Boris waving his hands around and ruffling up his hair, and not being Jeremy Corbyn.
    The last election in particular was so light on policy it was ridiculous


    The public have voted in droves for the latter.
    Nail on the head and this is why when anybody asks 'are you calling the British public stupid?', I say 'yes'.

    I don't care who they vote for but the majority view not long ago was that labour have too many policies, now the majority view is labour don't have enough policies.

    Similar to the 'theres no point voting, the parties are to similar' then almost immediately 'the parties are too extreme left/right and we need more centre ground politics' in the 2010s.

    Almost nobody has a good reason to vote the way they do and I blame the dumbos that used to say 'pick an issue and vote on it', it's far too complex to do that. If I said I was buying a car, nobody would say just pick one single attribute and buy based on that.

  2. #342

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Nail on the head and this is why when anybody asks 'are you calling the British public stupid?', I say 'yes'.

    I don't care who they vote for but the majority view not long ago was that labour have too many policies, now the majority view is labour don't have enough policies.

    Similar to the 'theres no point voting, the parties are to similar' then almost immediately 'the parties are too extreme left/right and we need more centre ground politics' in the 2010s.

    Almost nobody has a good reason to vote the way they do and I blame the dumbos that used to say 'pick an issue and vote on it', it's far too complex to do that. If I said I was buying a car, nobody would say just pick one single attribute and buy based on that.
    the joy of government is that the public are stupid , Adolf Hitler

    And in many cases the dirty stinking fascist was right

    My mother has carers in to help her

    They are paid less than 10 quid an hour . Some are very good . A fair few are totally brainless . They can mess about on their mobile phones and watch reality TV and go down the gym .

    But when we talked about the recent election most of them said they didn't bother voting and one three days after the election said who won ?

    These people could be directly helped , or not helped as may be the case , by whoever is in charge

    When everyone was doing this clap for carers thing last year some of em were saying nobody cares about us , one said to me drakeford takes too much tax from us , I am not going to bother voting , I told her it was the government in Westminster who is responsible for taxation , the Welsh government has awarded you a grant but its going to be taxed by the government in Westminster so if anything you want to be protesting about them and use your vote to say so ?

    She said oh I just can't be bothered anyway

    Now I know why sometimes tigers kill their young

  3. #343

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    We had a referendum on PR. A simple yes or no vote and the public voted against it. That's fair enough isn't it?

    Or are the people who voted against it too stupid, like a lot on here say people who vote what they consider to be "the wrong way" are?

    The Liberals were promised a referendum in the coalition government in return for supporting a bill. The got their referendum lost it, then threw their toys out of the pram and reneged on their promise. Is that the kind of people you would want supporting a party you voted for in a PR Government?
    the referendum was not for PR but for the alternative system, which no-one really knew how it worked therefore it did not pass. If the Tories approved the PR vote, the public would have voted for it overwhelmingly. But both Labour and the Tories would lose their chance of absolute power if that happened, as neither party polls anywhere near 50%.

  4. #344

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    In the last couple of elections Labour have had a multitude of popular, well thought out policies - while all the Conservatives have offered is Brexit, Boris waving his hands around and ruffling up his hair, and not being Jeremy Corbyn.
    The last election in particular was so light on policy it was ridiculous


    The public have voted in droves for the latter.
    it is this kind of arrogance that will mean Labour will remain in the shadows. Just because a few polls about the policies say the public may think they are a good idea, does not mean that the public will vote for the party looking to implement them. Of course, only those on the left can critically analyse all parties manifestos, whereas those who are in the centre or the right are bereft of intelligence and capability.

    Consider Germany in 1933, only one party has a manifesto that promises jobs, investment in motorways, lower taxation, support for business, a better welfare state for all citizens... who are you voting for, given the policies are so popular and much needed after the great depression?

    Corbyn and his team were seen to be left rather than centre left, and such is the UK, a left wing party never really does well in a general election.

    The real lackwits are those who think the UK are stupid enough to fall for a marxist promising sensible policies.

  5. #345

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Nail on the head and this is why when anybody asks 'are you calling the British public stupid?', I say 'yes'.

    I don't care who they vote for but the majority view not long ago was that labour have too many policies, now the majority view is labour don't have enough policies.

    Similar to the 'theres no point voting, the parties are to similar' then almost immediately 'the parties are too extreme left/right and we need more centre ground politics' in the 2010s.

    Almost nobody has a good reason to vote the way they do and I blame the dumbos that used to say 'pick an issue and vote on it', it's far too complex to do that. If I said I was buying a car, nobody would say just pick one single attribute and buy based on that.
    If that is the case how did this trend kick in well before Boris and Brexit or Corbyn and now the two later ones have gone and Sir keir is at the helm Labour and they didn't return in hundreds of other council seats , that is so rare with a sitting government .

    In Eleven general elections 3 wins ( Blair , Blair , Blair ) without the Boris ,Brexit or Corbyn effect .

    I think its much deeper that what folk think , the way out in my humble view is the for the Lib's, Greens and Labour to swallow their pride and past and become one party, perhaps called a Social /Green/ Democratic Alliance Party , that might rock the Tories and win the centre ground and power


    Hartelepool since 97
    1997 > 26k Huge Peter Mandelson Labour win ,only 3 parties standing then Tories with 18k in second place
    2004 > 12.7k Labour win
    2005 > 18.2k Labour win ( Tories in 3rd place with 4k )
    2010 > 16.2k Labour win ( Tories into 2nd with 10.7k)
    2015 > 15.1k Labour win ( Tories back to 3rd place with 8.2k , Brexit Party 2nd with 11k )
    2017 > 21.8k Labour win ( Tories back into 2nd with 14.3k)
    2019 > 15.4k Labour win ( Tories 2nd with 11.8k )
    2021 > 15.2k Tory Win ( Labour 2nd with 8.5k )

  6. #346

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Starmer needs to wise up.

    Saw an interview with Tory boy Archer on TV and he had a point with finding it unbelievable that 2 able politicians like Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper are confined to the back benches.

    We have a useless( maybe the most usless PM and front bench in history) and a pathetically weak opposition.

  7. #347

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Nail on the head and this is why when anybody asks 'are you calling the British public stupid?', I say 'yes'.
    such arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I don't care who they vote for but the majority view not long ago was that labour have too many policies, now the majority view is labour don't have enough policies.
    could it be that previously there were too many policies and now there are too few?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Similar to the 'theres no point voting, the parties are to similar' then almost immediately 'the parties are too extreme left/right and we need more centre ground politics' in the 2010s.
    the UK will always be won in the centre ground. The Tories know this, and Labour under Blair knew this. Sadly, most on the left aren't aware of this, or if they are, they prefer behaving like Citizen Smith than running the risk of getting into power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Almost nobody has a good reason to vote the way they do and I blame the dumbos that used to say 'pick an issue and vote on it', it's far too complex to do that. If I said I was buying a car, nobody would say just pick one single attribute and buy based on that.
    I'd buy a car based on the sound it made. it its a noisy V10 or V12 then I'm buying it.

  8. #348

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Why are ,people dumbos , thick , gullible, stupid, kents, dull , sheep for having a different view or apply a democratic choice, its quite disparaging ?

  9. #349

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Why are ,people dumbos , thick , gullible, stupid, kents, dull , sheep for having a different view or apply a democratic choice, its quite disparaging ?
    it can be a general characteristic of those on the left that they believe someone who votes differently from them is either stupid or selfish. Those on the left tend to be less tolerant of those who hold differing political opinions.

    the electorate should be free to make up their own minds about what is important to them and how they wish to vote. It is a fundamental principle of a functioning democracy that we have alternative viewpoints. Democracy is something many left wingers are against, as evidenced by certain posters comments in this thread

  10. #350

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    If that is the case how did this trend kick in well before Boris and Brexit or Corbyn and now the two later ones have gone and Sir keir is at the helm Labour and they didn't return in hundreds of other council seats , that is so rare with a sitting government .

    In Eleven general elections 3 wins ( Blair , Blair , Blair ) without the Boris ,Brexit or Corbyn effect .

    I think its much deeper that what folk think , the way out in my humble view is the for the Lib's, Greens and Labour to swallow their pride and past and become one party, perhaps called a Social /Green/ Democratic Alliance Party , that might rock the Tories and win the centre ground and power


    Hartelepool since 97
    1997 > 26k Huge Peter Mandelson Labour win ,only 3 parties standing then Tories with 18k in second place
    2004 > 12.7k Labour win
    2005 > 18.2k Labour win ( Tories in 3rd place with 4k )
    2010 > 16.2k Labour win ( Tories into 2nd with 10.7k)
    2015 > 15.1k Labour win ( Tories back to 3rd place with 8.2k , Brexit Party 2nd with 11k )
    2017 > 21.8k Labour win ( Tories back into 2nd with 14.3k)
    2019 > 15.4k Labour win ( Tories 2nd with 11.8k )
    2021 > 15.2k Tory Win ( Labour 2nd with 8.5k )
    Labour can't agree with themselves, how are they going to agree enough with the Greens at one end and the Lib Dems at the other to align their parties into one?

  11. #351

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    such arrogance

    could it be that previously there were too many policies and now there are too few?


    the UK will always be won in the centre ground. The Tories know this, and Labour under Blair knew this. Sadly, most on the left aren't aware of this, or if they are, they prefer behaving like Citizen Smith than running the risk of getting into power.

    I'd buy a car based on the sound it made. it its a noisy V10 or V12 then I'm buying it.
    The centre within UK politics has moved all over the place since 97. Politics is all about momentum, small things take a grip and destroy otherwise decent campaigns (May 17, Corbyn 19). Labour are constantly fighting fires and can't control the message, policy comes a distance second to 'credibility'. The evidence of this is simple, the Tories have won multiple elections without revealing any policy detail.

  12. #352

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Why are ,people dumbos , thick , gullible, stupid, kents, dull , sheep for having a different view or apply a democratic choice, its quite disparaging ?
    To make myself clear (although it was already). Almost everybody is a dumbo, even the people who agree with me, even me, definitely you.

  13. #353

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    it can be a general characteristic of those on the left that they believe someone who votes differently from them is either stupid or selfish. Those on the left tend to be less tolerant of those who hold differing political opinions.

    the electorate should be free to make up their own minds about what is important to them and how they wish to vote. It is a fundamental principle of a functioning democracy that we have alternative viewpoints. Democracy is something many left wingers are against, as evidenced by certain posters comments in this thread
    You need to learn to read but I am glad we have the real lefty-hating feedy back. Pretending to be the impartial non-biased observer must have been really difficult.

    Democracy is the worst form of governance, except for the other ones.

  14. #354

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    I'd like to see compulsory voting and proportional representation. It's the only way, at present, we can reject the idea of party politics and start electing the best people for society and the environment. In 2012 Gerard Casey wrote, “states are criminal organizations. All states, not just the obviously totalitarian or repressive ones”. I think he has a point.
    What value is a vote by someone forced to cast one?

  15. #355

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    You need to learn to read but I am glad we have the real lefty-hating feedy back. Pretending to be the impartial non-biased observer must have been really difficult.

    Democracy is the worst form of governance, except for the other ones.
    I've not said I'm impartial and I most certainly don't hate the left - alhough it can be said I dislike left and right in equal measure. Conversely, I quite admire some aspects of what the left do, just look at the Greens in Germany. Lets hope they win in the forthcoming Bundestag elections and show the UK just what a strong centre left party can do - God knows we need a a strong opposition to hold the current government to account.

    The issue we have in the UK is left wing politics is full of arseholes who cannot countenance someone who disagrees with their viewpoint. you only have to read these posts to see what left wingers truly think. pah!

  16. #356

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    What value is a vote by someone forced to cast one?
    It's of greater value than no vote at all. An example would be jury service - we have to be jurors and we have to, for a period of time, listen to and understand the facts of a case and are expected to make a decision.

    Democracy is meant to be a form of governance by the whole population. In the last election, only 42% of the UK population voted. Of the people that did vote, for a large number, under our current [un-democratic] system, their vote was a waste of time because they will have no representation at a local or national level.

    I am totally skeptical of the justifications of power i.e. monarchy, church, political parties - and believe we must take personal responsibility for the environment and the society we live in. Abdication of that responsibility is, to me, a gross form of societal sabotage.

    I must be clear here, I am not in favour of the status quo, far from it.

    We are already living through a mass extinction event. The way we, as a society and on an individual basis, live, is unsustainable and our current environmental crisis is far more important than invented left or right politics let alone political parties.

    We have a responsibility to each and every one of us and the ecosystem. We have a personal responsibility to educate ourselves, communicate effectively, and work together in decision-making, and in order to do that, I believe we have to reject the status quo and the notion of political parties.

    The value of our vote, right now, is not worth very much because it gives too much power to the state.

    We cannot continue to expect anything other than a social and environmental disaster if just over half of a population share no collective responsibility. For the vote to be compulsory it has to be of value though, and you quite rightly raise that issue.

  17. #357

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    To make myself clear (although it was already). Almost everybody is a dumbo, even the people who agree with me, even me, definitely you.
    Phew I hate being left out lol.

  18. #358

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    A few points in reply, your response suggests that what I said rattled your cage a bit, also youíve spent a decade and more telling us on here that right is right, so itís hard to reconcile you with being the reasonable man in the middle seeing both sides of the argument. However, although I do associate Conservatism with greed (Iíve always thought there is a dividing line between aspiration and greed, but it can be a thin one) and always will do, I was also making a general point that people tend to get more selfish/self absorbed as they get older - I have to admit I have.
    I have gone the other way. I am far more mindful of other people as I get older - and am also more mindful of those who live on the breadline.

  19. #359

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    It's of greater value than no vote at all. An example would be jury service - we have to be jurors and we have to, for a period of time, listen to and understand the facts of a case and are expected to make a decision.

    Democracy is meant to be a form of governance by the whole population. In the last election, only 42% of the UK population voted. Of the people that did vote, for a large number, under our current [un-democratic] system, their vote was a waste of time because they will have no representation at a local or national level.

    I am totally skeptical of the justifications of power i.e. monarchy, church, political parties - and believe we must take personal responsibility for the environment and the society we live in. Abdication of that responsibility is, to me, a gross form of societal sabotage.

    I must be clear here, I am not in favour of the status quo, far from it.

    We are already living through a mass extinction event. The way we, as a society and on an individual basis, live, is unsustainable and our current environmental crisis is far more important than invented left or right politics let alone political parties.

    We have a responsibility to each and every one of us and the ecosystem. We have a personal responsibility to educate ourselves, communicate effectively, and work together in decision-making, and in order to do that, I believe we have to reject the status quo and the notion of political parties.

    The value of our vote, right now, is not worth very much because it gives too much power to the state.

    We cannot continue to expect anything other than a social and environmental disaster if just over half of a population share no collective responsibility. For the vote to be compulsory it has to be of value though, and you quite rightly raise that issue.
    I certainly don't believe that a forced vote is of greater value than no vote at all. Those being forced to vote probably care not a jot about the outcome nor where they place an X on the ballot paper.

  20. #360

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I certainly don't believe that a forced vote is of greater value than no vote at all. Those being forced to vote probably care not a jot about the outcome nor where they place an X on the ballot paper.
    Until we force people to start taking personal responsibility for the decisions that have an impact on them, their families, colleagues, friends, and others, what hope do we have? If those being forced to vote care not a jot about the outcome or where they place an X on a ballot paper then should they reap the benefits of a society that is only in place because there are others who do care?

    Of course, if these uncaring voters and 58% of non-voters in the UK end up living in a society that actively discriminates against them, their families, etc. because they just placed an X anywhere or didn't vote - maybe they'll be more appreciative of having the opportunity next time? Assuming there is a next time.

    I'd ask myself this. Do I want to live in a society that forces me to actively partake in a democratic system or one that actively prevents me?

    I understand the arguments for and against and I understand that there are complications. There would have to be caveats, for example, legal obligations to fulfill policies, local communities selecting local candidates that aren't affiliated to political parties, financial controls, and many more. But something has to change as the world is clearly broken.

    We can all throw rocks. I may dislike many politicians and parties but I do respect the fact that they are actively putting themselves forward when the vast majority carp from the sidelines. If we could encourage and educate and admit to our institutionalisation maybe we'd have some hope.

    We're just going to have to disagree on this one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •