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Thread: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

  1. #276

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    The real cloth capped traditional down trodden working class have gone.

    The issue for me is they look at Labour and see a metropolitan woke elite party and it doesn't tick their box .
    I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

    "alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

    The OED defines it as:-

    "originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

    Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.

  2. #277

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    [QUOTE=City123;5191150]This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher[/QUOTE]

    Possibly the same people who also remember the 70's and the domination of the trade unions who abused their power?

  3. #278

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

    "alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

    The OED defines it as:-

    "originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

    Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.
    I know that a lot of people who describe people as woke are racists . I was seeing a woman who in no time displayed her true colours , raving racist , I was out of there

  4. #279

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    [QUOTE=Gofer Blue;5191170]
    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher[/QUOTE]

    Possibly the same people who also remember the 70's and the domination of the trade unions who abused their power?
    spoken like a true tory

  5. #280

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

    "alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

    The OED defines it as:-

    "originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

    Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.
    To echo a point previously made, even Andrew Neil (he of GB news and it's "woke watch") agrees with woke behaviour.

    Those most against it cannot define it, rarely engage with it and instead hear the phrase when it's one academic in Canada trying to "cancel" something in the UK with right wingers trying to tell them it's going to happen immediately unless you get outraged.

    Cancel culture is another one that's badly used. For example, Lorraine Kelly told the world her personality is a product she sells to viewers, the line between a person and their product has become blurred, but if I refuse to buy into Lorraine Kelly and tell others why suddenly I'm cancelling her instead of simply engaging in (Theresa May approved) capitalism. Meanwhile Lorraine Kelly gets to give endless interviews and have a voice louder than ever. No one described Super League being scrapped as "cancel culture" but wasn't it the same thing?

    Regardless, Tories have recognised the want for a more authoritarian, regressive culture giving the liberals a bashing and have attempted to combine that with an economic centre position. It's like the reverse of David Cameron's government when we all assumed that would be a Labour one which is partly why Labour are in so much trouble.

  6. #281
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    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher
    that's because people become more conservative (with a small c) as they get older, not wanting what is perceived to be radical change. As you get older your earning potential diminishes so you want stability.

  7. #282
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    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    That could be true, can't see why it would be but it could be.
    see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.

  8. #283

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.
    Older people without much money are going to be flecked under this government and so are the working class , the vulnerable etc

    There are people in society that need support but they are going to be left behind . The welfare state has already changed into an American model , absolutely ruthless . Those people in the northern towns that switched to tory will be looked after for a couple of years then Boris and his lot will leave them to struggle

    The trouble is , unless a left of centre alternative is available thats the way it will stay

  9. #284

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.
    Stability like Brexit?

  10. #285

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Older people without much money are going to be flecked under this government and so are the working class , the vulnerable etc

    There are people in society that need support but they are going to be left behind . The welfare state has already changed into an American model , absolutely ruthless . Those people in the northern towns that switched to tory will be looked after for a couple of years then Boris and his lot will leave them to struggle

    The trouble is , unless a left of centre alternative is available thats the way it will stay
    If only life was that simple. Spending money on Benefits and social care is very expensive. Spend the money on these things and people will complain that money isn't being spent on infrastructure and the things that provide employment. It's impossible to keep everyone happy.

    Past Labour governments have found that as have the Tories.

    What everyone agrees on is that the current system is very unfair. I recall a time when my mother had to go into a care home; she was blind, immobile and in a virtual coma for 2 years before she died. She was a teacher when young enough to work and had paid into the system for very many years. Her house had to be sold to pay care fees yet the bloke in the room next door had his care for free. How is that fair? To come up with a fair system to suit everyone is virtually impossible. That was when a Labour government was in power. I fail to understand how you think a left of centre government would sort this particular problem out.

    Where the Tories have gone wrong on this is where Johnson said he had a ready made solution which I doubt was the case although the pandemic seems to have come to his rescue on this occasion.

  11. #286

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    If only life was that simple. Spending money on Benefits and social care is very expensive. Spend the money on these things and people will complain that money isn't being spent on infrastructure and the things that provide employment. It's impossible to keep everyone happy.

    Past Labour governments have found that as have the Tories.

    What everyone agrees on is that the current system is very unfair. I recall a time when my mother had to go into a care home; she was blind, immobile and in a virtual coma for 2 years before she died. She was a teacher when young enough to work and had paid into the system for very many years. Her house had to be sold to pay care fees yet the bloke in the room next door had his care for free. How is that fair? To come up with a fair system to suit everyone is virtually impossible. That was when a Labour government was in power. I fail to understand how you think a left of centre government would sort this particular problem out.

    Where the Tories have gone wrong on this is where Johnson said he had a ready made solution which I doubt was the case although the pandemic seems to have come to his rescue on this occasion.
    Sorry to hear about mum , I am going through the same process at the moment

    Maybe the bloke in the room next door worked for the council on highways keeping us moving , retired early through arthritis at 45 , had no savings and dementia kicked in , we can't leave these people to rot

  12. #287

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Stability like Brexit?
    thats going to be a right ding dong

  13. #288

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    thats going to be a right ding dong
    We won't know in the short term how successful , unsuccesful stable Brexit will be ,we have seen some signs of positiveness with the creation of Freeports , vaccination program and we may see greater ability flexibility to self fund ailing industries like steel .

    To date we not seen mass supply issues or large businesses moving away creating high unemployment.

    It's certainly very early days.

  14. #289

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

    "alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

    The OED defines it as:-

    "originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

    Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.

  15. #290

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    We won't know in the short term how successful , unsuccesful stable Brexit will be ,we have seen some signs of positiveness with the creation of Freeports , vaccination program and we may see greater ability flexibility to self fund ailing industries like steel .

    To date we not seen mass supply issues or large businesses moving away creating high unemployment.

    It's certainly very early days.
    It is early days but supply issues are beginning to bite in the construction industry, a few I’ve spoken to are showing concern. The work itself is there but you can’t pull your socks up if you haven’t got any, the gradual drying up of materials will definitely result in the laying off of labour leading to huge blow to the much hoped for post covid recovery.

  16. #291

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    It is early days but supply issues are beginning to bite in the construction industry, a few I’ve spoken to are showing concern. The work itself is there but you can’t pull your socks up if you haven’t got any, the gradual drying up of materials will definitely result in the laying off of labour leading to huge blow to the much hoped for post covid recovery.
    Is that a Brexit problem or a global supply shortage though?

  17. #292
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    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.
    My old Mam used to be a conformist, church-going, Lib Dem voter.

    Once she passed 80 she became a rabid Labour voting feminist who wanted to give Boris a smack every time he came on TV!

    Just saying!

  18. #293

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Is that a Brexit problem or a global supply shortage though?
    This ain't helping

    https://qz.com/1985276/america-is-ru...short-of-wood/

  19. #294

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    My old Mam used to be a conformist, church-going, Lib Dem voter.

    Once she passed 80 she became a rabid Labour voting feminist who wanted to give Boris a smack every time he came on TV!

    Just saying!
    My dear old mum sadly passed now was a lovely , gentle , poor but generous charitable lady , who voted Tory all her life , nastiness never crossed her mind.

    Just saying.

  20. #295

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    My dear old mum sadly passed now was a lovely , gentle , poor but generous charitable lady , who voted Tory all her life , nastiness never crossed her mind.

    Just saying.
    She voted for the party that a former Conservative Prime Minister described as the “nasty party” then.

    To go back to the original point, there are always exceptions, for example, my mum was a Tory until she was a thirty and then she heard Harold McMillan telling she’d never had it so good and immediately became a Labour voter who became more left wing as she got older, but I’d say that, generally speaking, people become more right wing/selfish as they get older.

  21. #296

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    So, are you saying that LOM meant his use of woke as a compliment?

  22. #297

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    The history in Hartlepool is fascinating as political trends go

    1997 > 26k Huge Peter Mandelson Labour win ,only 3 parties standing then Tories with 18k in second place
    2004 > 12.7k Labour win
    2005 > 18.2k Labour win ( Tories in 3rd place with 4k )
    2010 > 16.2k Labour win ( Tories into 2nd with 10.7k)
    2015 > 15.1k Labour win ( Tories back to 3rd place with 8.2k , Brexit Party 2nd with 11k )
    2017 > 21.8k Labour win ( Tories back into 2nd with 14.3k)
    2019 > 15.4k Labour win ( Tories 2nd with 11.8k )
    2021 > 15.2k Tory Win ( Labour 2nd with 8.5k )

  23. #298
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    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    My old Mam used to be a conformist, church-going, Lib Dem voter.

    Once she passed 80 she became a rabid Labour voting feminist who wanted to give Boris a smack every time he came on TV!

    Just saying!
    you can only begin to imagine my shock at reading this.

  24. #299
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    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    She voted for the party that a former Conservative Prime Minister described as the “nasty party” then.

    To go back to the original point, there are always exceptions, for example, my mum was a Tory until she was a thirty and then she heard Harold McMillan telling she’d never had it so good and immediately became a Labour voter who became more left wing as she got older, but I’d say that, generally speaking, people become more right wing/selfish as they get older.
    why is it selfish? This is something the left continually trot out about conservative voters, but conservatism isn't about self at all - that's a myth peddled by the left who think they are somehow making those on the right feel bad.

    Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, its going about things a different way.

    Your comment is lazy and is akin to saying Labour voters are work shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work.

    Left and right are two different approaches to the same problem, none are perfect, on some occasions left wing approaches work, on others right wing approaches do. you'd have to be pretty naive to think only one method is better than the other - if it was, governments all over the world would be adherents to that particular approach.

  25. #300

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    why is it selfish? This is something the left continually trot out about conservative voters, but conservatism isn't about self at all - that's a myth peddled by the left who think they are somehow making those on the right feel bad.

    Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, its going about things a different way.

    Your comment is lazy and is akin to saying Labour voters are work shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work.

    Left and right are two different approaches to the same problem, none are perfect, on some occasions left wing approaches work, on others right wing approaches do. you'd have to be pretty naive to think only one method is better than the other - if it was, governments all over the world would be adherents to that particular approach.
    A few points in reply, your response suggests that what I said rattled your cage a bit, also you’ve spent a decade and more telling us on here that right is right, so it’s hard to reconcile you with being the reasonable man in the middle seeing both sides of the argument. However, although I do associate Conservatism with greed (I’ve always thought there is a dividing line between aspiration and greed, but it can be a thin one) and always will do, I was also making a general point that people tend to get more selfish/self absorbed as they get older - I have to admit I have.

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