Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[surge]

Your attitude and opinions are a golden example of why Labour is doing so badly and the left wing is basically unelectable. According to you, anybody who dared vote Conservative is stark staring bonkers. Well, thats over 14 million people at the last election. You need to look a bit closer to home if you want to understand why people vote Conservative - its because the alternative is even more horrific to many people.

If we focus on the specific thing said about Tory voters instead of the Tory party we're left with:

I’ve tried to get my head around why anyone would still vote for them, I really have I just don’t get it.

Is your message fair or are you pushing a narrative?

[Tuerto]

Yes, it seems one party gets forgiven everything and another one forgiven nothing.

Seriously, it's because Boris is a 'Character' in some cases, a bit of a boy, almost an idiot. And i think that he plays up to it, it's his default position, and plenty of plebs find it funny and almost endearing that he acts like a bumbling shop owner. There are plenty of reasons why he is popular, especially with those who he will damage the most, it's almost a protest for some, a mini Trump to a certain degree.

When poor areas are neglected, their culture attacked, their means of a living stripped away, then people like Boris thrive. He can get away with most things, because in a kind of perverse way, he's sticking his fingers up to politics by acting in the way that he does. It shows how bad things have got when an idiot like Boris is deemed some kind of cult figure for the disengaged.

[the other bob wilson]

Just my opinion, but I think this article describes the modern day Labour Party pretty well - Starmer’s PPS should have been sacked on the spot for that remark as it perfectly captures how out of touch so many of them are.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-keir-starmer

[cardiff55]

Your attitude and opinions are a golden example of why Labour is doing so badly and the left wing is basically unelectable. According to you, anybody who dared vote Conservative is stark staring bonkers. Well, thats over 14 million people at the last election. You need to look a bit closer to home if you want to understand why people vote Conservative - its because the alternative is even more horrific to many people.

That does appear to be happening. But clearly working class people are bonkers to vote Tory. I am old enough to remember Thatcher trying to convince working class people they were 'middle' class, a strategy that has worked. Back then there was manufacturing, a coal industry, a steel industry etc but the world has changed. Most people now work in office based jobs, as the 'blue collar' jobs have gone. Getting people to consider themselves shareholders and home owners converted a lot of people over to the blue side. Most of the shareholders sold up straightaway and made few quid. And people could buy their council houses back then, but the Tories made it easier due to massive discounts.

And people , I think, are now greedier and more concerned about their own wealth and status than anything else. If people wanted the middle ground why doesn't the LibDems get more votes? I find hard to believe how people can switch between Labour and Conservative. Disillusioned Labour voters would never do that in the past, they may go to Plaid or LD but not the Tories. Likewise disillusioned Tories.

Wales, well the South Wales valleys and the so called Red Wall up North, are the last bastions of Labour votes. Scotland has gone it's own way mainly to the detriment of Labour and now even places like Hartlepool are electing Tory MPs. I think Plaid have failed too, Wales are not interested in Independence but I do believe they would have done better had they not focused in that particular issue. The LDs look finished in Wales though.

I don't think any of the three main leaders are popular, Drakeford because of the restrictions, The PC bloke who always very shouty and angry, and Andrew 'RT' Davies. who just ambles on in a monotone.

So we will get a Labour /PC coalition then?

[the other bob wilson]

Seriously, it's because Boris is a 'Character' in some cases, a bit of a boy, almost an idiot. And i think that he plays up to it, it's his default position, and plenty of plebs find it funny and almost endearing that he acts like a bumbling shop owner. There are plenty of reasons why he is popular, especially with those who he will damage the most, it's almost a protest for some, a mini Trump to a certain degree.

When poor areas are neglected, their culture attacked, their means of a living stripped away, then people like Boris thrive. He can get away with most things, because in a kind of perverse way, he's sticking his fingers up to politics by acting in the way that he does. It shows how bad things have got when an idiot like Boris is deemed some kind of cult figure for the disengaged.

Honestly, I hope it’s like The Emperor’s New Clothes with Johnson and there’ll come a moment when everyone will see him for what he is, but I’m not holding my breath - I don’t think all Tory voters are thick, but then they fall for the Bullingdon boy’s “man of the people” Schtick - why?

[Tuerto]

Honestly, I hope it’s like The Emperor’s New Clothes with Johnson and there’ll come a moment when everyone will see him for what he is, but I’m not holding my breath - I don’t think all Tory voters are thick, but then they fall for the Bullingdon boy’s “man of the people” Schtick - why?

Because i believe that people feel massively disengaged, Politically. It's as if politics isn't there to be taken seriously. If Starmer became more Populist, vulgar, reactionary etc, then i'm sure that plenty of people would like it. I really believe that it's all about personality, and the ones that act like the biggest Donkey at the party are embraced in the same way an obnoxious pissed up uncle at a Family occasion is tolerated with that lift of the eyebrows and wry grin.

[ninian opinian]

Your attitude and opinions are a golden example of why Labour is doing so badly and the left wing is basically unelectable. According to you, anybody who dared vote Conservative is stark staring bonkers. Well, thats over 14 million people at the last election. You need to look a bit closer to home if you want to understand why people vote Conservative - its because the alternative is even more horrific to many people.

My attitude and my opinions what you talking about? Where have I said that people who vote Tory are stark staring bonkers? All I’ve done is to state facts. Come on where’s your counter arguments to mine?

[jon1959]

Just my opinion, but I think this article describes the modern day Labour Party pretty well - Starmer’s PPS should have been sacked on the spot for that remark as it perfectly captures how out of touch so many of them are.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-keir-starmer

Good article.

I think he's got it right.

Especially the last paragraph on the direction Labour should take - but sadly not the one they/we will take. It will be double down.

[surge]

I think one of Labour's problems is the desire to have the "perfect" Labour party before being able to compete for government whereas one of the strongest points of the Tory party is that they get into government then disagree behind closed doors.

So many hot-takes today on what Labour did wrong and where it should go. Keir was promoted as the unifying candidate between center and left of the party and tasked with making it a more responsible party ready to lead - that still needs to happen.

[goats]

Your attitude and opinions are a golden example of why Labour is doing so badly and the left wing is basically unelectable. According to you, anybody who dared vote Conservative is stark staring bonkers. Well, thats over 14 million people at the last election. You need to look a bit closer to home if you want to understand why people vote Conservative - its because the alternative is even more horrific to many people.

Exactly, corbyn scared the life out of people who had been working hard all their lives, he’s too backward, they feared tax’s like the 70’s again. My old man who was born in a house in hunter street in the docks and worked in a factory there his whole life never forgot it until the day he died, never voted for them again. JC was already talking about basically taking peoples houses instead of letting their kids inherit them....no one is going to happy with that shi*t......

[Mr Soul '68]

The Tories introduced Austerity which massively impacted the working class. We’ve got the worst State Pensions in Europe and are made to work longer. They cut police, shut fire stations and cut fire fighters. Underfunded the NHS/local services, refuse to give health care workers the pay rise they so deserve. Funnelled billions of pounds into the pockets of their donors. The pandemic death toll has been horrific and front line staff weren’t given the PPE they needed which resulted in 300 plus of them dying. And as for that pathetic big lump of lard Johnson who whilst his wife was having treatment for cancer was shagging his mistress in the marital home and who won’t even admit how many kids he has. The corruption he’s so obviously involved with, I could go on... I’ve tried to get my head around why anyone would still vote for them, I really have I just don’t get it.

The best comments I have read, that echo my own thoughts and sentiments, on the 6 pages, so far on here. Exactly the reasons why I would never ever vote for the scummy low life tories

[surge]

Exactly, corbyn scared the life out of people who had been working hard all their lives, he’s too backward, they feared tax’s like the 70’s again. My old man who was born in a house in hunter street in the docks and worked in a factory there his whole life never forgot it until the day he died, never voted for them again. JC was already talking about basically taking peoples houses instead of letting their kids inherit them....no one is going to happy with that shi*t......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g6k1a4XYA

Audience member: "I am nowhere near the top 5% of earners in the UK....I'm not even in the top 50% but you're going to increase my taxes."

Labour representative: "We're not going to increase income tax on anyone who isn't in the top 5% of earners."

Audience member: "you're going to increase my taxes.I'm not even in the top 50% but you're going to increase my taxes."

QT host: "Do you earn over £80,000?"

Audience member: "Yes."

QT host: "I think that is the top 5%."

(some quotes adjusted to get the point across but nothing major).

[A Quiet Monkfish]

The Tories introduced Austerity which massively impacted the working class. We’ve got the worst State Pensions in Europe and are made to work longer. They cut police, shut fire stations and cut fire fighters. Underfunded the NHS/local services, refuse to give health care workers the pay rise they so deserve. Funnelled billions of pounds into the pockets of their donors. The pandemic death toll has been horrific and front line staff weren’t given the PPE they needed which resulted in 300 plus of them dying. And as for that pathetic big lump of lard Johnson who whilst his wife was having treatment for cancer was shagging his mistress in the marital home and who won’t even admit how many kids he has. The corruption he’s so obviously involved with, I could go on... I’ve tried to get my head around why anyone would still vote for them, I really have I just don’t get it.

Probably because they don't share your views. As your name says, it's an 'opinion'.

[ninian opinian]

The best comments I have read, that echo my own thoughts and sentiments, on the 6 pages, so far on here. Exactly the reasons why I would never ever vote for the scummy low life tories

Thank you sir. I also forget to mention the exams fiasco, the track and trace balls up, disgusting treatment of the Windrush generation, Grenfell, the haunted pencil (Mogg) saying those who died didn’t use common sense. Patels bullying and breaking the ministerial code for the second time , the first for holding undisclosed meetings in Israel. And there’s a lot bloody more. I’ll say it again I just don’t get it.

[ninian opinian]

Probably because they don't share your views. As your name says, it's an 'opinion'.

The only opinion though is the one I made about giving health care workers a pay rise. Am I wrong on anything else?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

The only opinion though is the one I made about giving health care workers a pay rise. Am I wrong on anything else?

Not saying you are 'wrong' on anything. But I was picking up your comment - that others have also made here - that they don't understand why anyone would vote conservative. That argument could cut both ways. There's no right or wrong, or good or bad party, it's just a personal choice.

[life on mars]

Not saying you are 'wrong' on anything. But I was picking up your comment - that others have also made here - that they don't understand why anyone would vote conservative. That argument could cut both ways. There's no right or wrong, or good or bad party, it's just a personal choice.

Indeed , it's called free speech and democracy.

[tforturton]

All these people on here, ranting about how they hate the Tories, and why Labour should be doing better, all seem to be missing the point. And also, they're not asking the obvious question - why did the Conservatives win Hartlepool? Why did the majority of voters put their X in the Conservative box? Those people obviously can see something that the Labour Party leader(s) can't.

One thing they don't care about is the colour of the Downing Street wallpaper. It's totally irrelevant.
What they have seen is that after years in the political wilderness, Labour are still like a chicken with no head. They have no ideas, and no direction. No-one knows what they stand for any more. If the Guardian can see it, so can everyone else.
They've also seen the benefits of having a Tory MP or Mayor. Fair or not, your constituency will reap the benefits of voting blue.

I've said it before, but Wales has suffered from having a Labour administration under a Tory UK government. When Labour was in power, they took Wales for granted. When the Conservatives are in power, they can afford to ignore Wales, and let the Senedd take the blame. Now, if the Welsh voted in the Tories, then you'd see the money start to arrive.

[ninian opinian]

All these people on here, ranting about how they hate the Tories, and why Labour should be doing better, all seem to be missing the point. And also, they're not asking the obvious question - why did the Conservatives win Hartlepool? Why did the majority of voters put their X in the Conservative box? Those people obviously can see something that the Labour Party leader(s) can't.

One thing they don't care about is the colour of the Downing Street wallpaper. It's totally irrelevant.
What they have seen is that after years in the political wilderness, Labour are still like a chicken with no head. They have no ideas, and no direction. No-one knows what they stand for any more. If the Guardian can see it, so can everyone else.
They've also seen the benefits of having a Tory MP or Mayor. Fair or not, your constituency will reap the benefits of voting blue.

I've said it before, but Wales has suffered from having a Labour administration under a Tory UK government. When Labour was in power, they took Wales for granted. When the Conservatives are in power, they can afford to ignore Wales, and let the Senedd take the blame. Now, if the Welsh voted in the Tories, then you'd see the money start to arrive.

So basically what you’re saying is that the Tories are a bunch of bastards who will only look after those who vote for them. And there was me thinking we were all equal in the good old United Kingdom. PS it’s not wallpaper let’s call it what it is and that’s corruption.

[the other bob wilson]

All these people on here, ranting about how they hate the Tories, and why Labour should be doing better, all seem to be missing the point. And also, they're not asking the obvious question - why did the Conservatives win Hartlepool? Why did the majority of voters put their X in the Conservative box? Those people obviously can see something that the Labour Party leader(s) can't.

One thing they don't care about is the colour of the Downing Street wallpaper. It's totally irrelevant.
What they have seen is that after years in the political wilderness, Labour are still like a chicken with no head. They have no ideas, and no direction. No-one knows what they stand for any more. If the Guardian can see it, so can everyone else.
They've also seen the benefits of having a Tory MP or Mayor. Fair or not, your constituency will reap the benefits of voting blue.

I've said it before, but Wales has suffered from having a Labour administration under a Tory UK government. When Labour was in power, they took Wales for granted. When the Conservatives are in power, they can afford to ignore Wales, and let the Senedd take the blame. Now, if the Welsh voted in the Tories, then you'd see the money start to arrive.

So if the what’s in it for me party has all this money to throw about, why the ten years of austerity which they, and plenty of others it would appear, have decided to forget about?

[LeningradCowboy]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/hartlepo...cceeded-991356

The reality about Hartlepool that Labour can’t face is that perhaps it didn’t fail – the Tories succeeded

[life on mars]

All these people on here, ranting about how they hate the Tories, and why Labour should be doing better, all seem to be missing the point. And also, they're not asking the obvious question - why did the Conservatives win Hartlepool? Why did the majority of voters put their X in the Conservative box? Those people obviously can see something that the Labour Party leader(s) can't.

One thing they don't care about is the colour of the Downing Street wallpaper. It's totally irrelevant.
What they have seen is that after years in the political wilderness, Labour are still like a chicken with no head. They have no ideas, and no direction. No-one knows what they stand for any more. If the Guardian can see it, so can everyone else.
They've also seen the benefits of having a Tory MP or Mayor. Fair or not, your constituency will reap the benefits of voting blue.

I've said it before, but Wales has suffered from having a Labour administration under a Tory UK government. When Labour was in power, they took Wales for granted. When the Conservatives are in power, they can afford to ignore Wales, and let the Senedd take the blame. Now, if the Welsh voted in the Tories, then you'd see the money start to arrive.

Instead of trying to reinvent Tory sleaze Labour should have taken a bolder vision to the electorate around opportunity post Brexit instead of negativity , attacks social care funding via tax increases . That would have played out better that wallpapergate which appeared as a weak pre election tool .

Seems no 10 refurbishment is not a new story :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics....politicalnews

[surge]

Instead of trying to reinvent Tory sleaze Labour should have taken a bolder vision to the electorate around opportunity post Brexit instead of negativity , attacks social care funding via tax increases . That would have played out better that wallpapergate which appeared as a weak pre election tool .

Seems no 10 refurbishment is not a new story :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics....politicalnews

I hope people realise that the big thing is that Boris now owes someone unknown a favour and we don't know what they want to do with it. And that rather than quickly explain Boris would rather taxpayer's money be spent on an inquiry.

Tories acting irresponsibly and Labour having a bold, positive vision - not one or the other.

[llan bluebird]

Labour are fighting elections with 30 year old tactics. Mandy, Brown and Blair may have been bright new things copying the Clinton campaign with the reliance of focus group. In the meantime the tories have learnt from Cummings with all the Cambridge analytica shenanigans.

The left right thing went 15 years ago, the working class are just about surviving, there is little organised labour outside the public sector. Much of the working class has cottoned on to labours middle class bourgeois takeover. Very few unions regional or national reps make it to MP's any more, loads form Oxbridge P.E.P graduates, making it to SPAG's then parachuted into "safe seats". Yes the tories do the same thing, but have never pretended to be any different.

Labour are seen as the woke party, loads of middle class puritans antagonizing all those just trying to make end meet.

The working class suddenly don't believe in the tories, they just have totally given up on labour. The Jocks have the SNP, they don't have to vote for independence if it happens. Wales has the valleys with the pathological hatred of the tories and Plaid are a party for farmers and nationalist ideologs 120 years too late. The libs/green are just another version of Starmers labour.

No idea what labour do next.

[J R Hartley]

Sludge and his ilk are the reason for Labours demise. They took the party too far left for the average Labour voter.


The party is now in chaos and divided.

I voted Plaid. I can’t stand the labour candidate in Merthyr.