6000 majority for the tories
Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour
Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
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6000 majority for the tories
Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour
Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today heyOriginally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
It seems like that but the public think differently; otherwise they would have voted for him. The problem with Labour is that nobody gets what they stand for. Appointing Starmer as leader was daft. He was the guy that was at least 50% responsible for Labour's defeat at the last election due to Labour's wooly views on Brexit. Were they for it or against it? Holding a conference of Labour insiders to determine the country's future didn't stand up to public opinion. And that view carries forward to this day as the public have no idea of their views on the major issues.
Unusually I tend to agree with SLUDGE.
People are quick to find reasons to dislike Labour (just look at this thread!) and quick to find excuses for the Tories.
Of course, what we all want is the UK to become a better place to live in for everyone no matter who is in government. Hartlepool yesterday said it was getting better and to be fair, based on what I've heard, I think it probably is for their locals even if it's only getting better after 10 years of needless Tory austerity.
10 years of Tory austerity that came about as a result of Labour almost bankrupting the Country. People are not stupid, they have longer memories that Corbyn and Starmer gave them credit for. They also realised that in spite of all the hardship caused by the austerity measures, the alternative is a Labour Government who ridiculously wanted to go on a reckless spending spree by borrowing hundreds of billions more.
it was good times though
Blaming Labour solely for what happened in 2008 is just as bonkers as blaming the what's in it for me party for the origin of the pandemic. If the Labour party was responsible for 2008 in any way it was for following deregulatory policies even more enthusiastically than the Thatcher/Major Governments did - the financial crash was down to failures of capitalism and libertarianism as bankers took advantage of freedoms caused by a worldwide roll back of regulation.
Both Conservatives and Labour were united on what to do following the financial crash and I've never heard any tories saying that the y would have not brought in the policies Brown followed that caused the crash because they were were too left wing - they were right of centre policies which caused what happened in 2008.
Coming up to date, goats said I would be upset today because of what's happening so far in the elections because Labour are doing poorly. While I'd say it's disappointing because I've nearly always voted Labour in my life, the truth is that, increasingly, my politics are first and foremost anti Conservative and I haven't voted Labour with any enthusiasm in ages.
In the so called Tory landslide of 2019, there were, rounding down, 47 million people eligible to vote, 14 million, rounding up, of which voted Conservative. Therefore, out of eligible voters, more than two thirds did not vote Conservative. Of course, many of them would have been apathetic tories who were sure their party was going to win and there would have been Conservatives who would not have been able to vote for whatever reason. However, it's clearly true that far more people who had the right to vote did not feel they could vote Conservative than those who did.
With our voting system, that always happens no matter who wins, but, as has been remarked already, with the main opposition party falling into the normal left v right infighting which some in it appear to think is the main reason for its existence, I believe there are an awful lot of people like me, who long for an electable and coherent alternative to the Conservatives that has a realistic chance of winning.
The Labour party became an irrelevance in Scotland and still don't seem to have realised it yet and it's heading towards the same situation in the UK unless it realises that the real enemy are the lot who have formed the Government for almost thirty of the last forty years - if they cannot do that and prefer to continue rowing amongst themselves, then they're not worth saying.
i) I agree Labour party (and centre-left/left as a whole) needs to become more united
ii) Tories have been in power for something like 85 of past 105 years. They're looking to secure that longer term with boundary changes and removal of caps on election spending. The UK is basically a one party-state and it could get much worse.
And almost 70% didn't vote Labour in 2019.
Part of Labour's problem is they never fully challenged this utterly bullshit narrative.
Labour's spending did not cause the global financial crisis.
Austerity was not required, it was what the tories wanted.
Other countries didn't pursue an extreme ideological austerity, and emerged from the global financial crisis no differently than the UK, and in some areas the austerity is thought to have delayed the economy recovering.
Because the outgoing Labour government never challenged that the tories were able to inflict horrific austerity on poor areas of the uk, and escape much of the blame for it - the blame falling on "labour spending" or immigration. Which is why we are where we are today.
Thats your opinion but it isn't mine and I suspect isn't the opinion of the millions of voters who have deserted Labour in the last few years. People realise that if you borrow billions of pounds to run a country, even at low rates of interest, at some point the money has to be paid back. How anyone can say austerity measure weren't needed at the time is beyond me but there you go.
Not really, something is clearly changing in this country and, taking party politics out of it, it seems very odd to me that maybe as much as millions of people are deciding to give a party that has not been in power for eleven years a kicking. Normal political behaviour would see a reaction against a party that has been in Government for more than a decade which has enforced a period of austerity that saw living standards drop for most people and yet there is no protest vote against that party and they’re thriving.
There would be a boost for any Government that oversaw the launch a vaccine which proved successful, but there was no pandemic in 2019 when the combined Conservative and UKIP vote easily beat the Labour vote in Hartlepool - with UKIP out of the running this time, the result shouldn’t come as a surprise.
I still think Brexit is playing a huge part in shaping how people vote, especially in the north of England and places like Wrexham, but, five years after the referendum, I’ve still not seen or read anything convincing as to why Labour are the party that is being blamed electorally for causing the situation. No doubt, this result will bring more pieces from analysts claiming to know exactly what is going on, but I’m not sure anyone does yet.
just one point Bob, Welsh Labour have been in power for over 20 years, not a decade. You're quite right we need a change as living standards in Wales have fallen much further behind the rest of the UK.
I'm sure that's what you meant, because taking party politics out of it, what you say about the Tories in the UK context most definitely applies to Welsh Labour, who really are bereft of any ideas on how to make Wales a better place.
The increased profile of the Welsh Parliament since the Pandemic has been a bit of a godsend to Conservative voters because they can forget about the fact that Wales has a very limited kind of self Government with much of it dependant on how much Westminster allocates them and just start blaming Welsh Labour for everything. If we had the degree of independence you make it sound as if we had, there would be no point in there being a Plaid Cymru party.
the old chestnut that Wales is doing poorly because we aren't properly funded. We receive £15bn per annum in public expenditure than we generate in taxes. If Wales became independent, we'd be an economic basket case. It is all too easy for Welsh Labour to blame the lack of funding, but the Welsh government have considerably more power than any English region and receives considerably more funding per capita yet all English regions bar one have improved their lot compared to Wales in the lifetime of the Senedd. That tells me the Senedd and Welsh Labour is ineffectual and it is nothing to do with lack of funding. If it was down to funding, then the English regions would also struggle, but they have not.
Having the Tories in Westminster is an easy way out for Welsh Labour, as they don't have to be held accountable for their shambolic performance and can simply blame the lack of funding.
I'm not even sure WHAT Starmer is.
He seems entirely governed by focus groups and the like that I would be hard pressed to tell you of any of his actual firm held beliefs.
It is a difficult situation at the moment though - the national pandemic response is somewhat akin to a wartime government, and the feeling is that the public would react badly to heavy criticism as they feel the government is trying its best in a difficult situation, and they don't want to see people politicking at a time of national disaster.
So there is definitely a school of thought that Starmer would be best to keep his powder dry until the pandemic has gone, then start to crank up the pressure once the sleaze, corruption and incompetence are plain to see.
The question for me is: Is he keeping his powder dry, or does he just not have a spark?
I also think Labour are finished. Conservatives must think it’s Christmas every day. There is absolutely no opposition to them, It’s a woeful situation.
I see only 2 paths now. The UK either get used to being Tory led for the foreseeable future, or Wales and Scotland take a gamble and go independent,
Wonder what Jeff Stelling thinks?
Wasn’t that going to be the Lib Dem’s? Look how they got on in the by election coming 6th. The UK needs a credible opposition but the current crop are hopeless.
Not sure where this leaves the political future but it looks grim at the moment.
The unions got a lot to answer for, interfering with leadership and demanding the dumb milliband got in instead of his brother who was in line for leader, since then we've had two clowns in Corbyn and Stammer. Personally I thought after Corbyn it would have been a good time to bring in a woman leader but that Scouse twat McCluskey was not having that. RIP.
Labour will never be finished but they'll always lose out until they get rid of a few factions of their support.
How anyone normal person in the street can think that Tories will improve their lives is bewildering. Things don’t look good and Labour are promising to change more. But in what way? Do they mean opposition to Tories or chasing Tory votes? The latter isn’t going to work.
And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
Has Labour WA really benefitted me personally? I can't say that it has
Have the Tories at Westminster hindered me? I can't say that it has - helped me in my career sector massively though
The old class divide has collapsed we longer see those traditional manual workers voting in droves for Labour , Labour has moved to more of a Metropolitan City party where its safer in the areas like Manchester , Liverpool , Bristol, and London , the traditional heartlands up north and parts midlands are seeing a shift in voting to the Tories , as they don't connect or like the Metropolitan view , it doesn't make them evil , its simply a shift in the democratic voting patterns of people .
Will be interesting to how it plays out in Wales with the gains and losses and mayoral voting in England .
Cant be bothered with the enclave that is Scotland and their ruler she reminds me of Thatcher my way or no way , lol ???
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