Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[the other bob wilson]

AS Harold Wilson is often quoted as saying "A week is a long time in politics" BOb

10 years is a Millenium!

Politics have changed greatly since 2010 particularly in the last year. The Tory party had already started to say that we would not be returning to austerity and the pandemic has now accelerated this.

I think it is now recognised that in an age of very low interest rate increasing the National Debt is not such a problem as it was when interest rates were higher. If I remember correctly back in 2010 when the Government embarked on its austerity program (which to be fair Labour were also going to do except we now of course have no idea whether it would have been as strict or lasted as long as the Tory version) the thought was that the low interest rates would soon start to go up making too large a National Debt an expensive proposition.

Thus the plan was to decrease the annual deficit so as to make the debt growth smaller.

The perceived wisdom now is that interest rates have remained low and are likely to do so for a while so we should take advantage of them and borrow more now.

Also as Lord Finkelstein the Times columnist said the strength of the Conservative Party over the years is it ability to adapt itself to changing circumstances. Thus it sees no dichotomy in championing austerity 10 years ago and splashing the cash now.

On the hand when Labour has to change course it is far more difficult for them to do

As I said in a previous post, I haven't voted Labour with any enthusiasm in ages and my politics are far more anti Conservative now than pro Labour - when I vote for them it's much more to do with a feeling of stopping a Tory win in my constituency than any great expectation of what Labour will do.

You talk about "perceived wisdom" and columns by Tory hacks about changing to adapt itself to changing circumstances, I prefer to see a party without principles shifting their position to cling to power at all costs. That said, have they really moved on from austerity? Much of the reaction I saw to the last budget suggested not. While I accept that the pandemic has changed things enormously, we've still set for the same pay freezes and cuts in spending that we had when "we were all in it together" back in 2020. Incidentally, austerity under the Conservatives didn't begin and end in 2010 - I wasn't quite accurate when I said ten years of austerity, but it was nine and a half years of it from May 2010 to December 2019, because I refuse to accept that the May Government had ditched that policy.

Therefore, we aren't talking ten years ago, we're talking less than eighteen months ago and now we have the Chancellor talking again of the need for cuts and yet, despite the zig zagging which saw them talking about using the sort of spending policies supported by Labour and other opposition parties in the second half of the last decade, their support remains constant.

After the Senedd election results, we're seeing the old claims about people voting for anyone or anything as long as they're wearing a red rosette given an airing and yet the irony is that, so often, the people who use that analogy feel the exact same way about anyone or anything wearing a blue rosette.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

In Wales the tories have tried every sneaky trick in the book to get in and its ended up like a wet fart

The people have come out where it mattered and ensured Wales is not governed by the blue devils

The Vale Of Glamorgan win was fantastic , clearly plenty of people in many wealthy areas outside of urban Barry and the Llantwit area have told the tories to sling their hook

Big turnouts in Swansea , Newport and our mighty Capital for Labour , with increased majorities

The valleys sticking with Labour , Plaid kicked out of Rhondda

In England its been a bloodbath and I think English Labour is finished

I think if the English Labour Party formed a anything but tory democratic left of centre alliance then it would have a chance of taking on the blue meanies

That would mean teaming up with disillusioned former liberals .......what the feck has happened to them , independents etc

Scottish Labour is as dead as English Labour , Labour will not gain those 50 plus seats back

So a new centre left English party , relying on the loyalty of Welsh Labour voters , which I think needs to become independent of English Labour is the only chance of having an alternative to the tories , otherwise you may as well stand on a box in Queen Street shouting vote Karl Marx.........its pissing in the wind

Unless the voting system changes to proportional representation coalition government between anti tory parties is the only chance to keep the conservatives out

Starmer is far too weak , he's got to go and to be honest so has the English Labour Party

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

A senior Labour source told Nick Watt on Newsnight that this was Boris's Falklands moment, They could see him going on and winning the next election which would mean Starmer going and the left taking over Labour again. which he reckoned would mean the end of the Labour Party

keep Welsh Labour independent of England, scrap UK Labour party , form a left of centre democratic anti tory alliance which can team up with Welsh Labour to keep the tories out

Labour party in England is finished , Liberals have had it but a new party emerging from the ashes of both of them and a few independents is the way to go

There are still a majority of this country that will never vote tory , you just have to offer them something new

[goats]

The Labour candidate from Merthyr is from Bristol. No connection to the town. Voted against free meals for vulnerable in this pandemic. In one of the most impoverished areas in the country. So clearly she doesn’t understand the area she’s meant to represent. In fact in her victory speech she thanked the people of Merthyr and Tydfil. I ****ing despair.

My god....unbelievable Jeff

[Jordi Culé]

keep Welsh Labour independent of England, scrap UK Labour party , form a left of centre democratic anti tory alliance which can team up with Welsh Labour to keep the tories out

Labour party in England is finished , Liberals have had it but a new party emerging from the ashes of both of them and a few independents is the way to go

There are still a majority of this country that will never vote tory , you just have to offer them something new

This left of centre, hybrid, combination party you keep on screaming for, are you suggesting something that was successful as the SDP and Change UK?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

This left of centre, hybrid, combination party you keep on screaming for, are you suggesting something that was successful as the SDP and Change UK?

No , they were a bunch of cults

[Tuerto]

In Wales the tories have tried every sneaky trick in the book to get in and its ended up like a wet fart

The people have come out where it mattered and ensured Wales is not governed by the blue devils

The Vale Of Glamorgan win was fantastic , clearly plenty of people in many wealthy areas outside of urban Barry and the Llantwit area have told the tories to sling their hook

Big turnouts in Swansea , Newport and our mighty Capital for Labour , with increased majorities

The valleys sticking with Labour , Plaid kicked out of Rhondda

In England its been a bloodbath and I think English Labour is finished

I think if the English Labour Party formed a anything but tory democratic left of centre alliance then it would have a chance of taking on the blue meanies

That would mean teaming up with disillusioned former liberals .......what the feck has happened to them , independents etc

Scottish Labour is as dead as English Labour , Labour will not gain those 50 plus seats back

So a new centre left English party , relying on the loyalty of Welsh Labour voters , which I think needs to become independent of English Labour is the only chance of having an alternative to the tories , otherwise you may as well stand on a box in Queen Street shouting vote Karl Marx.........its pissing in the wind

Unless the voting system changes to proportional representation coalition government between anti tory parties is the only chance to keep the conservatives out

Starmer is far too weak , he's got to go and to be honest so has the English Labour Party

So it's English Labour now Fair play you're seriously confused. Before the election results, Drakeford was a **** and Gething could get ****ed as well

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

So it's English Labour now Fair play you're seriously confused. Before the election results, Drakeford was a **** and Gething could get ****ed as well

I said Drakeford needed to step down , he's going to

I still think gethin is not good enough

Overall in Wales the result has been outstanding

An independent Welsh Labour Party , which clearly has the voter loyalty the English Labour Party doesn't , teamed up with a modern alternative to English Labour would give those who don't vote tory a chance to form an electable anti tory government

Its as simple as that really

[Jordi Culé]

No , they were a bunch of cults

You mean there was little support for them?

You've got your supposedly centre left party already in England at the moment being led by Starmer, how's that going at the moment?

[Jordi Culé]

So it's English Labour now Fair play you're seriously confused. Before the election results, Drakeford was a **** and Gething could get ****ed as well

He makes it up as he goes along mun.

Or Mikey has him on the books to repeat drivel to keep the hits up?

[Tuerto]

I said Drakeford needed to step down , he's going to

I still think gethin is not good enough

Overall in Wales the result has been outstanding

An independent Welsh Labour Party , which clearly has the voter loyalty the English Labour Party doesn't , teamed up with a modern alternative to English Labour would give those who don't vote tory a chance to form an electable anti tory government

Its as simple as that really

An 'Independent' Welsh Labour Party? Stop it now, Sludge, you're cracking me up That can't exist, read the core values of a Labour Movement (although it isn't that) It would have to become a new party in Wales. You're not thinking any of this through, are you?

[Tuerto]

He makes it up as he goes along mun.

Or Mikey has him on the books to repeat drivel to keep the hits up?

He's having an absolute stinker. To use a football analogy, subbed after 30 minutes.

[Tuerto]

You mean there was little support for them?

You've got your supposedly centre left party already in England at the moment being led by Starmer, how's that going at the moment?

Exactly. Drakeford has implemented Left wing policy, yet he's alright with that, it seems, the morning after the results.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

AS Harold Wilson is often quoted as saying "A week is a long time in politics" BOb

10 years is a Millenium!

Politics have changed greatly since 2010 particularly in the last year. The Tory party had already started to say that we would not be returning to austerity and the pandemic has now accelerated this.

I think it is now recognised that in an age of very low interest rate increasing the National Debt is not such a problem as it was when interest rates were higher. If I remember correctly back in 2010 when the Government embarked on its austerity program (which to be fair Labour were also going to do except we now of course have no idea whether it would have been as strict or lasted as long as the Tory version) the thought was that the low interest rates would soon start to go up making too large a National Debt an expensive proposition.

Thus the plan was to decrease the annual deficit so as to make the debt growth smaller.

The perceived wisdom now is that interest rates have remained low and are likely to do so for a while so we should take advantage of them and borrow more now.

Also as Lord Finkelstein the Times columnist said the strength of the Conservative Party over the years is it ability to adapt itself to changing circumstances. Thus it sees no dichotomy in championing austerity 10 years ago and splashing the cash now.

On the hand when Labour has to change course it is far more difficult for them to do

I think reducing the National Debt has recently become something the Govt. - along with many other Govts. - isn't going to attempt. 10/12 yrs. of 'austerity' didn't reduce the Debt at all, and with it now standing at £2.2 trillion it's here to stay, much like Japan. The bigger problem is the £6.5 trillion liability for State Pensions. If you add Government-funded public sector pensions, there's another £5 trillion. Interest rates aren't going north for a long, long time.

[goats]

You mean there was little support for them?

You've got your supposedly centre left party already in England at the moment being led by Starmer, how's that going at the moment?

Better than the geography teacher maybe

[Elwood Blues]

As I said in a previous post, I haven't voted Labour with any enthusiasm in ages and my politics are far more anti Conservative now than pro Labour - when I vote for them it's much more to do with a feeling of stopping a Tory win in my constituency than any great expectation of what Labour will do.

You talk about "perceived wisdom" and columns by Tory hacks about changing to adapt itself to changing circumstances, I prefer to see a party without principles shifting their position to cling to power at all costs. That said, have they really moved on from austerity? Much of the reaction I saw to the last budget suggested not. While I accept that the pandemic has changed things enormously, we've still set for the same pay freezes and cuts in spending that we had when "we were all in it together" back in 2020. Incidentally, austerity under the Conservatives didn't begin and end in 2010 - I wasn't quite accurate when I said ten years of austerity, but it was nine and a half years of it from May 2010 to December 2019, because I refuse to accept that the May Government had ditched that policy.

Therefore, we aren't talking ten years ago, we're talking less than eighteen months ago and now we have the Chancellor talking again of the need for cuts and yet, despite the zig zagging which saw them talking about using the sort of spending policies supported by Labour and other opposition parties in the second half of the last decade, their support remains constant.

After the Senedd election results, we're seeing the old claims about people voting for anyone or anything as long as they're wearing a red rosette given an airing and yet the irony is that, so often, the people who use that analogy feel the exact same way about anyone or anything wearing a blue rosette.

A political party without principles?

Well I never did!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You mean there was little support for them?

You've got your supposedly centre left party already in England at the moment being led by Starmer, how's that going at the moment?

He's useless and the party is still tainted by corbyn

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

An 'Independent' Welsh Labour Party? Stop it now, Sludge, you're cracking me up That can't exist, read the core values of a Labour Movement (although it isn't that) It would have to become a new party in Wales. You're not thinking any of this through, are you?

I am ahead of the game

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Exactly. Drakeford has implemented Left wing policy, yet he's alright with that, it seems, the morning after the results.

he's not my cup of tea but he's no raving lefty

[Jordi Culé]

He's having an absolute stinker. To use a football analogy, subbed after 30 minutes.

Using another sporting analogy, old pro boxer, punch drunk, lacking mental acumen, doing the same things over and over again. Should never have gone back in the ring but his ego wouldnt let go.

I think he's unravelling (politically).

[Jordi Culé]

He's useless and the party is still tainted by corbyn

****inell...

Give it up now.

[Tuerto]

Using another sporting analogy, old pro boxer, punch drunk, lacking mental acumen, doing the same things over and over again. Should never have gone back in the ring but his ego wouldnt let go.

I think he's unravelling (politically).

Spot on..

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Using another sporting analogy, old pro boxer, punch drunk, lacking mental acumen, doing the same things over and over again. Should never have gone back in the ring but his ego wouldnt let go.

I think he's unravelling (politically).

Sounds like a lot of us posters on here

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Spot on..

Keep standing on that box in queen Street in the rain with your momentum leaflets

[the other bob wilson]

A political party without principles?

Well I never did!

As I said before, one party gets forgiven everything and the other one gets forgiven nothing - is there anything the Tory's could do that would make the vote for anything in a blue rosette crowd say "no, they've gone too far there, I'll vote for someone else"?