Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[the other bob wilson]

The real cloth capped traditional down trodden working class have gone.

The issue for me is they look at Labour and see a metropolitan woke elite party and it doesn't tick their box .

I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

"alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

The OED defines it as:-

"originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.

[surge]

I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

"alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

The OED defines it as:-

"originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.

To echo a point previously made, even Andrew Neil (he of GB news and it's "woke watch") agrees with woke behaviour.

Those most against it cannot define it, rarely engage with it and instead hear the phrase when it's one academic in Canada trying to "cancel" something in the UK with right wingers trying to tell them it's going to happen immediately unless you get outraged.

Cancel culture is another one that's badly used. For example, Lorraine Kelly told the world her personality is a product she sells to viewers, the line between a person and their product has become blurred, but if I refuse to buy into Lorraine Kelly and tell others why suddenly I'm cancelling her instead of simply engaging in (Theresa May approved) capitalism. Meanwhile Lorraine Kelly gets to give endless interviews and have a voice louder than ever. No one described Super League being scrapped as "cancel culture" but wasn't it the same thing?

Regardless, Tories have recognised the want for a more authoritarian, regressive culture giving the liberals a bashing and have attempted to combine that with an economic centre position. It's like the reverse of David Cameron's government when we all assumed that would be a Labour one which is partly why Labour are in so much trouble.

[LeningradCowboy]

I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

"alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

The OED defines it as:-

"originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.

[the other bob wilson]

So, are you saying that LOM meant his use of woke as a compliment?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Or better still to introduce a political system which allows politicians to be themselves, display their values to the electorate and gain votes based on that position rather than what we have now. FPTP is so anti-democratic that it isn't even funny to watch anymore. I would take the repugnant prospect of a handful of mental BNP types included in a truly representative parliament over different shades of lying that we have now.

Starmer is getting hammered for doing what has won the Tories the last 2 elections - no policy detail, just vague statements. It's genius spin from the Tories (as usual, adopted readily by a friendly press and pushed down every orifice). Labour now have to risk pissing people off by saying what they will do.

Clegg hungry for power got his flimsy but better than nothing alternative vote from Cameron but the public were not interested , turnout was crap and they voted to keep fptp

The joy of government is that the people are stupid

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Except young people overwhelmingly vote for anybody other than the Tories.

sad to see that less than 50 percent of 16 and 17 year olds registered to vote

How many actually voted I don't know 😕

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

And then switch by their 40’s or 50’s by the look of it

watch it

[City123]

the thing is, Young people do not want to be working class, they aspire to better themselves, which is exactly what the Tories tap into

This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher

[Gofer Blue]

[QUOTE=City123;5191150]This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher[/QUOTE]

Possibly the same people who also remember the 70's and the domination of the trade unions who abused their power?

[Feedback]

This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher

that's because people become more conservative (with a small c) as they get older, not wanting what is perceived to be radical change. As you get older your earning potential diminishes so you want stability.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Diane Abbot was off again yesterday publicly slagging off starmer for purging the corbyn branch of Labour

Whilst I think starmer is a crap leader its her very actions that make it clear to me that this is the very reason Labour is dead in the water

Her and the rest of the far left crew just cannot help themselves , mouthing off in public and backstabbing ........the divide between left and left of centre is enormous and will never be dealt with

She's a dreadful woman , claiming to be a socialist , slagging off the public school system .......which is fair enough .......but then sending her son to one 🙄

She's the MP for an inner city , poor London area !

Then making a few quid on top as a sort of political comedy double act ......which wasn't very funny .....with tory boy micheal portillo on the Andrew Neill show

Its all cobblers

[Eric Cartman]

And then switch by their 40’s or 50’s by the look of it

That could be true, can't see why it would be but it could be.

[Feedback]

That could be true, can't see why it would be but it could be.

see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.

[jon1959]

see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.

My old Mam used to be a conformist, church-going, Lib Dem voter.

Once she passed 80 she became a rabid Labour voting feminist who wanted to give Boris a smack every time he came on TV!

Just saying!

[Feedback]

My old Mam used to be a conformist, church-going, Lib Dem voter.

Once she passed 80 she became a rabid Labour voting feminist who wanted to give Boris a smack every time he came on TV!

Just saying!

you can only begin to imagine my shock at reading this.

[jon1959]

you can only begin to imagine my shock at reading this.

I know! So many years wasted as 'a conformist, church-going Lib Dem voter'. At least there is a happy ending.

[the other bob wilson]

Some young voters in Hartlepool were interviewed on TV recently. As you say, they admitted that their parents/grandparents were horrified that they could even contemplate voting Conservative. The problem is that the older generation are stuck in a 1980's Maggie Thatcher time-warp (closure of the mines etc) about which young people have no direct knowledge. One also mentioned
corruption amongst local Labour councillors (heaven forbid, surely not) as a reason for turning her back on the Labour party. Maybe these young people do not seem themselves as the old traditional working class people anymore and therefore the Labour party is irrelevant to them?

As pointed out after your message, the Labour party (and a few other opposition parties) do not have too many problems when it comes to young voters, it's the baby boomer generation (who, generally speaking, have had it so easy for most of their lives and are, in so many cases, quite an entitled lot) who are the problem. These are people who lived through Thatcherism and mines closing in the areas where they live and yet so many of them are still voting tory - it's not the deserting the Labour party (I'm fast losing patience with their endless civil wars) that baffles me, it's who they're deserting them for.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I looked up "woke" in an online dictionary, it said;-

"alert to injustice in society, especially racism."

The OED defines it as:-

"originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice".

Now, I would be quite pleased to have someone describe me in such a manner, in fact, I'd be proud. However, now it appears on the ticlkist that all right wingers appear to use these days, it seems to be used more in a negative way with the person being described as "woke" being someone who should be despised - given how the term is defined in dictionaries, that says so much about the people who use the term in such a way nowadays.

I know that a lot of people who describe people as woke are racists . I was seeing a woman who in no time displayed her true colours , raving racist , I was out of there

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

[QUOTE=Gofer Blue;5191170]

This is only true if we're counting in their 50s as young and ignoring the people who are 18-35 who vote Labour in overwhelming numbers. In fact at the last election Labour won amongst people who were 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44. Their vote fell off a cliff among people who do remember Thatcher[/QUOTE]

Possibly the same people who also remember the 70's and the domination of the trade unions who abused their power?

spoken like a true tory

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.

Older people without much money are going to be flecked under this government and so are the working class , the vulnerable etc

There are people in society that need support but they are going to be left behind . The welfare state has already changed into an American model , absolutely ruthless . Those people in the northern towns that switched to tory will be looked after for a couple of years then Boris and his lot will leave them to struggle

The trouble is , unless a left of centre alternative is available thats the way it will stay

[Vindec]

Older people without much money are going to be flecked under this government and so are the working class , the vulnerable etc

There are people in society that need support but they are going to be left behind . The welfare state has already changed into an American model , absolutely ruthless . Those people in the northern towns that switched to tory will be looked after for a couple of years then Boris and his lot will leave them to struggle

The trouble is , unless a left of centre alternative is available thats the way it will stay

If only life was that simple. Spending money on Benefits and social care is very expensive. Spend the money on these things and people will complain that money isn't being spent on infrastructure and the things that provide employment. It's impossible to keep everyone happy.

Past Labour governments have found that as have the Tories.

What everyone agrees on is that the current system is very unfair. I recall a time when my mother had to go into a care home; she was blind, immobile and in a virtual coma for 2 years before she died. She was a teacher when young enough to work and had paid into the system for very many years. Her house had to be sold to pay care fees yet the bloke in the room next door had his care for free. How is that fair? To come up with a fair system to suit everyone is virtually impossible. That was when a Labour government was in power. I fail to understand how you think a left of centre government would sort this particular problem out.

Where the Tories have gone wrong on this is where Johnson said he had a ready made solution which I doubt was the case although the pandemic seems to have come to his rescue on this occasion.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

If only life was that simple. Spending money on Benefits and social care is very expensive. Spend the money on these things and people will complain that money isn't being spent on infrastructure and the things that provide employment. It's impossible to keep everyone happy.

Past Labour governments have found that as have the Tories.

What everyone agrees on is that the current system is very unfair. I recall a time when my mother had to go into a care home; she was blind, immobile and in a virtual coma for 2 years before she died. She was a teacher when young enough to work and had paid into the system for very many years. Her house had to be sold to pay care fees yet the bloke in the room next door had his care for free. How is that fair? To come up with a fair system to suit everyone is virtually impossible. That was when a Labour government was in power. I fail to understand how you think a left of centre government would sort this particular problem out.

Where the Tories have gone wrong on this is where Johnson said he had a ready made solution which I doubt was the case although the pandemic seems to have come to his rescue on this occasion.

Sorry to hear about mum , I am going through the same process at the moment

Maybe the bloke in the room next door worked for the council on highways keeping us moving , retired early through arthritis at 45 , had no savings and dementia kicked in , we can't leave these people to rot

[Eric Cartman]

see my other post. as people age they don't want "radical" policies, they want stability.

Stability like Brexit?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Stability like Brexit?

thats going to be a right ding dong

[life on mars]

thats going to be a right ding dong

We won't know in the short term how successful , unsuccesful stable Brexit will be ,we have seen some signs of positiveness with the creation of Freeports , vaccination program and we may see greater ability flexibility to self fund ailing industries like steel .

To date we not seen mass supply issues or large businesses moving away creating high unemployment.

It's certainly very early days.