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Thread: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

  1. #21

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
    Has Labour WA really benefitted me personally? I can't say that it has

    Have the Tories at Westminster hindered me? I can't say that it has - helped me in my career sector massively though

  2. #22

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
    to be fair they are very odd

  3. #23

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    6000 majority for the tories

    Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour

    Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
    Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.

    There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.

    Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.

  4. #24

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
    Just like those 17,410,72 idiots who didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave the EU.

  5. #25

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I also think Labour are finished. Conservatives must think itís Christmas every day. There is absolutely no opposition to them, Itís a woeful situation.
    I see only 2 paths now. The UK either get used to being Tory led for the foreseeable future, or Wales and Scotland take a gamble and go independent,
    a new alternative to the tories party , call it the democratic party , best of Labour, Liberal, green etc

    Only way forward

    Labour is finished on a UK level

  6. #26

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    People are quick to find reasons to dislike Labour (just look at this thread!) and quick to find excuses for the Tories.

    Of course, what we all want is the UK to become a better place to live in for everyone no matter who is in government. Hartlepool yesterday said it was getting better and to be fair, based on what I've heard, I think it probably is for their locals even if it's only getting better after 10 years of needless Tory austerity.
    10 years of Tory austerity that came about as a result of Labour almost bankrupting the Country. People are not stupid, they have longer memories that Corbyn and Starmer gave them credit for. They also realised that in spite of all the hardship caused by the austerity measures, the alternative is a Labour Government who ridiculously wanted to go on a reckless spending spree by borrowing hundreds of billions more.

  7. #27

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.

    There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.

    Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
    he's off again

    Power to the people 💪

  8. #28

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.

    There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.

    Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
    The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.

  9. #29

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Just like those 17,410,72 idiots who didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave the EU.
    Well the ones in Wales are clearly idiots as the UK government is now withdrawing money from Wales promised to plug the gap left by leaving Europe

  10. #30

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    10 years of Tory austerity that came about as a result of Labour almost bankrupting the Country. People are not stupid, they have longer memories that Corbyn and Starmer gave them credit for. They also realised that in spite of all the hardship caused by the austerity measures, the alternative is a Labour Government who ridiculously wanted to go on a reckless spending spree by borrowing hundreds of billions more.
    The Labour spending plans supported by Cameron in opposition ?

  11. #31

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.

    There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.

    Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
    People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.

  12. #32

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Just for the record, Tories have made noises that they're taking a massive step towards proposals set out by Corbyn and McDonnell because they were extremely popular policies and this should be evidence enough that leftwing politics isn't dead. (We haven't seen whether these are implemented properly yet and not doubt it's Labour's fault if it's not implemented well).

    They've combined that with a creeping authoritarian, regressive culture which attacks opposition in any form in a way that would make Trump or Orban (Hungary) proud.

    I had a conversation yesterday with a conservative voter (small c) who said they'd never vote Tory again because of what they're currently doing economically and culturally. We're not hearing that yet because i) how popular this political position is (economically centre-left, culturally right, authoritarian) and ii) Tories are still a party friendly to billionaire's.

  13. #33

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
    You think it's that simple? Fair enough. A question for you- you say that you hate Tories etc, what do you think you would get under a centrist party which will have obvious right wing leanings?

    You're great at espousing the social aspect of your character, one that champions the most vulnerable, the needy, the destitute etc. How do you think that we've arrived at that over the past 30 years or so?

    I presume that you would like to see better services, more real affordable social housing, real investment in deprived areas, better care for the plenty who are taking their own lives or sitting depressed, directly or indirectly caused through years of right wing policy, yet you promote more of the same, because you believe that basic policy which allows people to live better can never exist. Fair play sludge, like plenty of others, they've done a job on you.

  14. #34

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
    It wasn't left wing, it's was far more left wing than we'd seen in the UK for several decades/perhaps ever. There is still a massive difference.

  15. #35

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
    indeed

  16. #36

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    Has Labour WA really benefitted me personally? I can't say that it has

    Have the Tories at Westminster hindered me? I can't say that it has - helped me in my career sector massively though
    The old class divide has collapsed we longer see those traditional manual workers voting in droves for Labour , Labour has moved to more of a Metropolitan City party where its safer in the areas like Manchester , Liverpool , Bristol, and London , the traditional heartlands up north and parts midlands are seeing a shift in voting to the Tories , as they don't connect or like the Metropolitan view , it doesn't make them evil , its simply a shift in the democratic voting patterns of people .

    Will be interesting to how it plays out in Wales with the gains and losses and mayoral voting in England .

    Cant be bothered with the enclave that is Scotland and their ruler she reminds me of Thatcher my way or no way , lol ???

  17. #37

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
    Left wing politics is certainly not dead.
    Just fractured
    This result cannot be seen as a rejecton of left wing policies, as which of those has Starmer been pushing recently?

    The main political issues I think are still Brexit and the pandemic.

  18. #38

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.
    that sounds like thatcher

    You realise the benefits system provided for more proportionally under the tories than it did under Blair and brown ?

  19. #39

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    You think it's that simple? Fair enough. A question for you- you say that you hate Tories etc, what do you think you would get under a centrist party which will have obvious right wing leanings?

    You're great at espousing the social aspect of your character, one that champions the most vulnerable, the needy, the destitute etc. How do you think that we've arrived at that over the past 30 years or so?

    I presume that you would like to see better services, more real affordable social housing, real investment in deprived areas, better care for the plenty who are taking their own lives or sitting depressed, directly or indirectly caused through years of right wing policy, yet you promote more of the same, because you believe that basic policy which allows people to live better can never exist. Fair play sludge, like plenty of others, they've done a job on you.
    I think I need to nail this into your head

    I want a moderate , left of centre alternative to the tories

  20. #40

    Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.
    Majority of those "sponging off the state" are either pensioners or in low paid jobs. Ironically, majority of those going out to work, keeping more of their money and bettering themselves through their own efforts (i.e. the young in this unstable economy) are voting for centre-left/left parties.

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