Just like those 17,410,72 idiots who didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave the EU.Originally Posted by dml1954
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Just like those 17,410,72 idiots who didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave the EU.
Just for the record, Tories have made noises that they're taking a massive step towards proposals set out by Corbyn and McDonnell because they were extremely popular policies and this should be evidence enough that leftwing politics isn't dead. (We haven't seen whether these are implemented properly yet and not doubt it's Labour's fault if it's not implemented well).
They've combined that with a creeping authoritarian, regressive culture which attacks opposition in any form in a way that would make Trump or Orban (Hungary) proud.
I had a conversation yesterday with a conservative voter (small c) who said they'd never vote Tory again because of what they're currently doing economically and culturally. We're not hearing that yet because i) how popular this political position is (economically centre-left, culturally right, authoritarian) and ii) Tories are still a party friendly to billionaire's.
bollocks
Now which part of my earlier post do I rely on here
"People get emotional because of Tory policies that have attacked minorities and created a wealth divide which has literally damaged people's lives. In comparison, your life has not really been damaged by a comment on here.
A greater level of respect should be shown to each other, but also that needs to come from the powerful to those without power as well."
It's not rubbish though. For example, you've just been locked in your homes for most of the year and adults not already in a couple banned from having legal sex (authoritarian), the Ofcom approved verdict on Channel 4 employment was overturned in what appears to be a consequence of them showing too much opposition (attacks the opposition in any form), transgender people are under attack so much so that several members of the LGBTQ+ advisory board resigned and latest race report made on distorted facts (regressive).
Please show examples of them being liberal, progressive and fair to opposition in response.
Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread/how long it can go on for before being moved to politics section. I will quietly add that the Queen's Speech today has some people concerned based on what I've said above and leave it at that.
Left wing politics is certainly not dead.
Just fractured
This result cannot be seen as a rejecton of left wing policies, as which of those has Starmer been pushing recently?
The main political issues I think are still Brexit and the pandemic.
Polls have also shown that left wing policies such as nationalisation are consistently popular across the UK, so the idea that left wing politics is dead is just clear nonsense. It would also ignore the 12.8m people who voted for Labour in 2017 and the 10.2m who voted in 2019 (more than voted for them in 2005, 2010 and 2015)
Ben Houchen the Tory Mayor in Teeside seems to be doing a good job of improving lives at the moment.
He won by 2,000 votes in 2017.
He won by over 76,000 this year mainly it appear because he actually seems to get things done. And presumably changes lives in the process.
Not just Tory mayors to be fair. Andy Burnham seemed to do an excellent job standing up for Manchester during the pandemic.
The last time a Labour leader not called Tony Blair won a general election was in 1974.
We're largely waiting to see if there is substance behind Boris' claims and whether people will be ready to listen - either his positive message comes off (and combined with boundary changes, removal of spending cap at elections etc.) Tories continue to dominate England or it becomes obvious that he lacks substance and things might change.
Already we've seen that the Irish Protocol Boris pushed through in order to get brexit done doesn't hold up but people generally don't care about Northern Ireland.
In the meantime, Labour needs to become more united as a party because they're judged to a higher standard before people are willing to lend them a vote.
The result has been diagnosed as Labour still suffering from Long Corbyn
you wouldn't believe that if you were one of those faithful to Abbott and her associates. She says it is the departure from Corbyn policies that caused it.
Blaming Corbyn for this is genuinely incredible. They won the seat twice under his leadership, with 2017 seeing them up 17% on 2015 while their 2019 result was still better than 2015, this is on Starmer.
What doesn't help the Labour party is the kind of things that is already happening this morning.
you have the left of the party in the form of Ms Abbott already saying Starmer should go back to genuine left wing policies and the kind of thing her team espoused, and a front bench spokesman saying he thinks they have to completely ditch the lft and concentrate on winning the middle ground.
There is nothing wrong with having these conversations/arguments but ffs why do they always have to do it in public/ People see it and must think that if they vote for them they don't know which side of the fight they'll end up putting in power.
It's almost like they have a self destruct button, it's crazy!!
And let's be fair, as honest and committed as Starmer might be, he has the personality of a boiled egg.
I saw her tweet , she just can't keep her gob shut
Can't stand her brand of socialism
The Tories are nasty ......but never mind that my sons going to private school !
She's a lunatic who eats prawn sandwiches
to be fair they are very odd
Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.
There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.
Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
It wasn't left wing, it's was far more left wing than we'd seen in the UK for several decades/perhaps ever. There is still a massive difference.
The same people who in 2017 achieved the greatest increase in vote share since 1945 - and were a few thousand votes in key seats off winning power?
The majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party (fully backed by the Tory press and the Guardian) have been at war with the majority of the membership since they had the audacity to elect Corbyn in 2015 and again in 2016 after the Chicken Coup.
Labour had popular policies in 2017, and they hadn't changed too much by 2019 - except for the incoherent position on Brexit.
Corbyn was a poor party manager (probably an impossible job given what was ranged against him) and avoided confrontation too much, but as a campaigner and inspiration to hundreds of thousands of activists he had qualities that Starmer can only dream about. Starmer has trashed his 10 election pledges, backed or abstained on Tory legislation, seen about 60,000 members resign and gagged (with suspensions) about 200 constituency parties.
The demoralisation of Labour under an ineffective and right-leaning Starmer, combined with the Vaccine Bounce, the continuing effects of Brexit (and a bit of gunboat diplomacy on the day before the election) is more than enough to see Labour hammered and the Tories seeing their corruption and incompetence ignored or even celebrated.
No surprise but totally depressing!
this isn't East Germany, the electorate decide the government, not the party
yet they are in freefall. not so popular after all
you need millions of votes to win an election, not hundreds of thousands. What good is it appealing to the rank and file if you can't appeal to the masses.
it is up to the Labour party to step up to the plate. At the present time, Labour are rather bereft of ideas
It helps to have an active and enthusiastic membership to campaign (phones, leaflets, doorstep, social media) in an election. It is not a good idea to attack and demoralise those members before an election so that a large proportion of them do not get involved. The hundreds of thousands speak to the millions. That's the way it works!
you need millions of votes to win an election, not hundreds of thousands. What good is it appealing to the rank and file if you can't appeal to the masses.
it is up to the Labour party to step up to the plate. At the present time, Labour are rather bereft of ideas
You are right - Labour is bereft of ideas. It wasn't a few years ago, and their ideas were popular. But what does Labour stand for under Starmer? Labour's campaign was ideas free. It had no identity. There was a thin pick and mix of national and local policies that totally failed to add up to a vision for the country or the local area.
The Anyone But Corbyn clique who now run the Labour Party really do need to 'step up to the plate'. Not for their own sakes, but for the millions who will pay the price for the Tory free run.
People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.
Majority of those "sponging off the state" are either pensioners or in low paid jobs. Ironically, majority of those going out to work, keeping more of their money and bettering themselves through their own efforts (i.e. the young in this unstable economy) are voting for centre-left/left parties.
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