Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[chris lee]

No. since 2010 the Tory government has collected more in taxes as a percentage of GDP than any other before it. It really is a myth that the Tories are the party of low taxes. Don't be fooled by headline rates.


marvellous, lets ignore the fact immigration is actually good for the UK

perhaps you can have a word with the DWP and HMRC as they haven't read the memo. There is more bureaucracy for the self-employed than ever before.

possibly. The jury is out


agreed


whilst this is a good thing, i can't see why we cannot fund education so everyone has an Eton/Harrow type of education paid for by the state.


perception doesn't mean fact. This Tory government have clamped down on a lot of our digital freedoms

I am not saying I agree or support all the above talking points, but I am trying to display a general theme, that surely you can see why a local business man or self-employed builder who can afford to send their kids to a private school would vote conservative, without necessarily being an evil person.

[/QUOTE]

I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.

The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Where nothing changes, the poor get poorer, more homeless, more depression, more addiction, communities reliant on anti depressants, lack of real job prospects, break up of families etc.... You know the drill...All the things you care about, yet you want to implement a party that would do very little to improve these people's lives. You had better get a life times supply of blankets, soup and keep adding to the food banks, those numbers you provide on mental health are going to be useful as well if you believe that a centrist party will do anything to help the poor. Good luck mate.

Gets out hammer

Pins little bloke to the wall

Bangs in nail

Moderate , LEFT of centre

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Labour have lived on the past for too long, many Labour voters voted for them as " my dad did " or " its what we vote around these parts ", voting day is very easy for them , Arrive, get ballot papers and look for labour, put cross in that box

a political party cannot survive like that for long

Voters actually do a little research these days, if a voter see's a party that they like the look of, they get the vote ( it could actually be the evil empire, the Tories ), the blind sheep like voter ( described above ) is on its way out

you realise that generations of people vote tory because.?.......daddy did

[blue matt]

you realise that generations of people vote tory because.?.......daddy did

Yes im sure they do, which just cements my point

[lardy]

Yes im sure they do, which just cements my point

But you said a political party can't survive like that for long, yet the Tories have had power for about 75% of the last four decades.

[Feedback]

But you said a political party can't survive like that for long, yet the Tories have had power for about 75% of the last four decades.

Tory votes ebb and flow. The fact is the UK is predominantly centre right in its politics. There is little point in having a left wing party, as the UK is always won in the centre ground. We've seen repeatedly what happens when Labour promote a socialist agenda - the party is thumped at the ballot box. The best ever result for Labour was Blair's social democratic party. you tell this to the Corbyn acolytes, and it falls on deaf ears.

[Dave Blue]

And so what does a tory voter like about that party because, certainly on here, none of them ever talk about what makes them vote the way they do?

They wouldn’t want to admit what they like about them.

[ninian opinian]

Thought this summed it up quite well.

“Personally, I think Labour’s perennial problem is that a lot of people don’t actually want a fairer society, they want a society that’s unfair on other people, not them”.

https://twitter.com/paulbernaluk/sta...369267717?s=21

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Well, that bus slogan is well and truly in the past now, so how do you explain the millions of voters that have deserted Labour for Conservative in the last few years. No doubt you will find some other pathetic excuse to cast doubt upon the sanity of anyone who doesn't think or vote like you.

the right wing of the tory party stoked up the inherent racism and xenophobia of the white working class

[dml1954]

the right wing of the tory party stoked up the inherent racism and xenophobia of the white working class

You failed to mention the word Proletariat in your quote from the Communist manual.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

just one point Bob, Welsh Labour have been in power for over 20 years, not a decade. You're quite right we need a change as living standards in Wales have fallen much further behind the rest of the UK.

I'm sure that's what you meant, because taking party politics out of it, what you say about the Tories in the UK context most definitely applies to Welsh Labour, who really are bereft of any ideas on how to make Wales a better place.

The tories have been in power the vast majority of the last 100 years in the UK

They have made huge feck ups and have had loads of times to sort it out

Yet welsh Labour are inept after 22 years ?

[Feedback]

The tories have been in power the vast majority of the last 100 years in the UK

They have made huge feck ups and have had loads of times to sort it out

Yet welsh Labour are inept after 22 years ?

that is a generation Sludge. Whether we are talking UK, Wales or local council, we do need change of government and policies every 10-15 years at the very least - if anything to keep the parties on their toes.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You failed to mention the word Proletariat in your quote from the Communist manual.

Huge ingrained racist views in the white working class , especially in the North of England

Europe, the tories banging the immigration drum ......its at its highest by the way .....and along they trot

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

sounds like you agree that the Tories care more for wealth redistribution than Labour.

no its just that thatcher brought Mass unemployment so had to pay for dole money

[Tuerto]

the right wing of the tory party stoked up the inherent racism and xenophobia of the white working class

The white working classes aren't inherently racist. Do your research.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The white working classes aren't inherently racist. Do your research.

Huge support for far right parties in Oldham, Burnley , Bradford , Rochdale and massive change in previous Labour voting areas to conservative or further right

English Defence League , white , working class football fans

People arrested for racially aggravated public order offences don't tend to come from cyncoed and rhiwbina

Bernard Manning

Roy Chubby Brown

The black guy at work , we call him chalkie , its only a joke

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There are lots of reasons, why one would vote for the way they do (tory) and often fairly uncontroversial.

- Lower taxes
- strong stance against illegal immigration
- Less regulation for the self employed
- more business friendly
- Politics of aspiration
- Competition in education
- Perceived to be more on the 'side' of freedom of speech


I am not saying I agree or support all the above talking points, but I am trying to display a general theme, that surely you can see why a local business man or self-employed builder who can afford to send their kids to a private school would vote conservative, without necessarily being an evil person.

this strong stance against immigration bought them a lot of votes

But its as high as ever , so somebody's talking shit

[xsnaggle]

Blaming Corbyn for this is genuinely incredible. They won the seat twice under his leadership, with 2017 seeing them up 17% on 2015 while their 2019 result was still better than 2015, this is on Starmer.

I agree it is incredible but that's what one side of the labour party is saying this morning and the other faction is saying the exact opposite.
And they're doing it in public AGAIN!! That is just close party suicide

[dml1954]

If we accept that currently Labour is a centre or centre right party (which I don't), as put forward by a number of people on here and people like Diane Abbott, there can be no doubt that they were soundly beaten in 2019 and yesterday by a party that is considerably further to the right in their policies. How on earth people can then advocate that, to regain their core voters, Labour need to lurch back to the left is totally beyond me. All the evidence is that they should become more right wing.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I agree it is incredible but that's what one side of the labour party is saying this morning and the other faction is saying the exact opposite.
And they're doing it in public AGAIN!! That is just close party suicide

I don't like to agree but it is indeed political suicide

[surge]

If we accept that currently Labour is a centre or centre right party (which I don't), as put forward by a number of people on here and people like Diane Abbott, there can be no doubt that they were soundly beaten in 2019 and yesterday by a party that is considerably further to the right in their policies. How on earth people can then advocate that, to regain their core voters, Labour need to lurch back to the left is totally beyond me. All the evidence is that they should become more right wing.

No one is saying current Labour is centre right. They're saying they're not centre-left/left enough.

Their polices (Brexit aside) weren't soundly beaten in 2019 and many live on as Tories have drifted left economically (and right authoritarian culturally). Tories won't be able to implement them properly though and no doubt the policies get blamed rather than Tories.

Labour need to be a broad church to win (and need to attract more voters than ever due to boundary changes, removal of cap on election spending and inherent bias in FPtP voting system) which means being more centre and more left. And more United behind that.

[Tuerto]

Huge support for far right parties in Oldham, Burnley , Bradford , Rochdale and massive change in previous Labour voting areas to conservative or further right

English Defence League , white , working class football fans

People arrested for racially aggravated public order offences don't tend to come from cyncoed and rhiwbina

Bernard Manning

Roy Chubby Brown

The black guy at work , we call him chalkie , its only a joke

Do some reading, take a look who has defeated fascism throughout the centuries, then ask yourself why racism and fascism rises in popularity amongst white, disengaged working class people.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Do some reading, take a look who has defeated fascism throughout the centuries, then ask yourself why racism and fascism rises in popularity amongst white, disengaged working class people.

Never mind the history books and stories of the battle of cable street

Who gave the English defence league a kicking in Cardiff?

It was middle class students with a helping hand from a few hundred docks lads

I didn't see mobs of white working class people out that day from the valleys and estates of Cardiff to tackle the fascists

You are living in the clouds and in a utopia

[surge]

We're 11 years into a Tory government but somehow it's seen as completely separate to what came before (spoiler alert: in some ways it is and in some big ways it's not) whereas Labour is seen as either extension of Blair by those who don't like Blair or an extension of Corbyn by those who don't like Corbyn.

That's a massive issue for Labour and a massive win for Tories.

[the other bob wilson]

We're 11 years into a Tory government but somehow it's seen as completely separate to what came before (spoiler alert: in some ways it is and in some big ways it's not) whereas Labour is seen as either extension of Blair by those who don't like Blair or an extension of Corbyn by those who don't like Corbyn.

That's a massive issue for Labour and a massive win for Tories.

I can't say whether this is definitely true or not, but I would say that it's believable - on the radio this morning someone was saying that they showed a sample of voters some of the Labour parties policies at the last election and they got an almost unanimously positive response, but that changed drastically when it was revealed Corbyn's Labour party that was behind the proposals.