Probably true. But the problem is that nobody believed Labour could deliver them.Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
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Probably true. But the problem is that nobody believed Labour could deliver them.
What part of Boris Johnson's government is small or fiscally responsible? In past couple of months they've talked about interfering into private institutions like football clubs and pubs as well as public funded ones like National Trust and Channel 4 and they literally won an election on reducing size of the economy. This is not a (small c) conservative government and proper conservative voters are being put off and replaced by new voters.
I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.
The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.
Sludge in Anecdotes shocker! Don't suppose I can argue with that when every inch of history tells us that the workers of the world have defeated Fascism time after time. You really need to think before you answer.
I voted for Starmer in the leadership election, but I wish i hadn't now. Labour have to aim at Boris as PM , Rees-Mogg, Patel and the others and still cock it up. But I will stay loyal to my beliefs.
The Tories introduced Austerity which massively impacted the working class. We’ve got the worst State Pensions in Europe and are made to work longer. They cut police, shut fire stations and cut fire fighters. Underfunded the NHS/local services, refuse to give health care workers the pay rise they so deserve. Funnelled billions of pounds into the pockets of their donors. The pandemic death toll has been horrific and front line staff weren’t given the PPE they needed which resulted in 300 plus of them dying. And as for that pathetic big lump of lard Johnson who whilst his wife was having treatment for cancer was shagging his mistress in the marital home and who won’t even admit how many kids he has. The corruption he’s so obviously involved with, I could go on... I’ve tried to get my head around why anyone would still vote for them, I really have I just don’t get it.
Yes, it seems one party gets forgiven everything and another one forgiven nothing.
Seriously, it's because Boris is a 'Character' in some cases, a bit of a boy, almost an idiot. And i think that he plays up to it, it's his default position, and plenty of plebs find it funny and almost endearing that he acts like a bumbling shop owner. There are plenty of reasons why he is popular, especially with those who he will damage the most, it's almost a protest for some, a mini Trump to a certain degree.
When poor areas are neglected, their culture attacked, their means of a living stripped away, then people like Boris thrive. He can get away with most things, because in a kind of perverse way, he's sticking his fingers up to politics by acting in the way that he does. It shows how bad things have got when an idiot like Boris is deemed some kind of cult figure for the disengaged.
Honestly, I hope it’s like The Emperor’s New Clothes with Johnson and there’ll come a moment when everyone will see him for what he is, but I’m not holding my breath - I don’t think all Tory voters are thick, but then they fall for the Bullingdon boy’s “man of the people” Schtick - why?
Because i believe that people feel massively disengaged, Politically. It's as if politics isn't there to be taken seriously. If Starmer became more Populist, vulgar, reactionary etc, then i'm sure that plenty of people would like it. I really believe that it's all about personality, and the ones that act like the biggest Donkey at the party are embraced in the same way an obnoxious pissed up uncle at a Family occasion is tolerated with that lift of the eyebrows and wry grin.
Your attitude and opinions are a golden example of why Labour is doing so badly and the left wing is basically unelectable. According to you, anybody who dared vote Conservative is stark staring bonkers. Well, thats over 14 million people at the last election. You need to look a bit closer to home if you want to understand why people vote Conservative - its because the alternative is even more horrific to many people.
If we focus on the specific thing said about Tory voters instead of the Tory party we're left with:
Is your message fair or are you pushing a narrative?I’ve tried to get my head around why anyone would still vote for them, I really have I just don’t get it.
That does appear to be happening. But clearly working class people are bonkers to vote Tory. I am old enough to remember Thatcher trying to convince working class people they were 'middle' class, a strategy that has worked. Back then there was manufacturing, a coal industry, a steel industry etc but the world has changed. Most people now work in office based jobs, as the 'blue collar' jobs have gone. Getting people to consider themselves shareholders and home owners converted a lot of people over to the blue side. Most of the shareholders sold up straightaway and made few quid. And people could buy their council houses back then, but the Tories made it easier due to massive discounts.
And people , I think, are now greedier and more concerned about their own wealth and status than anything else. If people wanted the middle ground why doesn't the LibDems get more votes? I find hard to believe how people can switch between Labour and Conservative. Disillusioned Labour voters would never do that in the past, they may go to Plaid or LD but not the Tories. Likewise disillusioned Tories.
Wales, well the South Wales valleys and the so called Red Wall up North, are the last bastions of Labour votes. Scotland has gone it's own way mainly to the detriment of Labour and now even places like Hartlepool are electing Tory MPs. I think Plaid have failed too, Wales are not interested in Independence but I do believe they would have done better had they not focused in that particular issue. The LDs look finished in Wales though.
I don't think any of the three main leaders are popular, Drakeford because of the restrictions, The PC bloke who always very shouty and angry, and Andrew 'RT' Davies. who just ambles on in a monotone.
So we will get a Labour /PC coalition then?
My attitude and my opinions what you talking about? Where have I said that people who vote Tory are stark staring bonkers? All I’ve done is to state facts. Come on where’s your counter arguments to mine?
Exactly, corbyn scared the life out of people who had been working hard all their lives, he’s too backward, they feared tax’s like the 70’s again. My old man who was born in a house in hunter street in the docks and worked in a factory there his whole life never forgot it until the day he died, never voted for them again. JC was already talking about basically taking peoples houses instead of letting their kids inherit them....no one is going to happy with that shi*t......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g6k1a4XYA
Audience member: "I am nowhere near the top 5% of earners in the UK....I'm not even in the top 50% but you're going to increase my taxes."
Labour representative: "We're not going to increase income tax on anyone who isn't in the top 5% of earners."
Audience member: "you're going to increase my taxes.I'm not even in the top 50% but you're going to increase my taxes."
QT host: "Do you earn over £80,000?"
Audience member: "Yes."
QT host: "I think that is the top 5%."
(some quotes adjusted to get the point across but nothing major).
The best comments I have read, that echo my own thoughts and sentiments, on the 6 pages, so far on here. Exactly the reasons why I would never ever vote for the scummy low life tories
Thank you sir. I also forget to mention the exams fiasco, the track and trace balls up, disgusting treatment of the Windrush generation, Grenfell, the haunted pencil (Mogg) saying those who died didn’t use common sense. Patels bullying and breaking the ministerial code for the second time , the first for holding undisclosed meetings in Israel. And there’s a lot bloody more. I’ll say it again I just don’t get it.
Probably because they don't share your views. As your name says, it's an 'opinion'.
Labour lost control of Sheffield Council - lost 5 seats to Greens and 3 to LibDems.
Tories have their first council seat in 20 years (they were extinct before yesterday, and lost their last MP in 1997).
UKIP/Brexit collapse has helped Tories and LibDems; left disillusionment with Starmer's Labour has helped the Greens.
Surely time for Corbyn to step down as ex Labour Leader and accept full responsibility?
Reading some of the posts on this thread typify why the working class have deserted Labour in droves.
Not only has it taken them for granted, many of its most vociferous followers openly castigate them.
For different reasons, some want a real Left Wing Party, others want it Tory Lite
i) Clever use of most there. Not most of it's followers but most vociferous followers and still not sure that is true.
ii) The working class has clearly changed within the last 20 years. Hartlepool may be traditionally working class but they've aged now so many of Boris' new voters are no longer working/working full time and have more capital (home ownership) than the new working class. The new working class work in unstable jobs and live in rented accommodation for most of their twenties and still generally vote centre-left/left parties.
iii)I think Hungary is an example of an EU nation who has followed own vaccine strategy; freeports were always allowed within the EU (there is some contention whether Boris and EU are describing a different system under the same name); and Tories did nothing to fight off the super-league as it was threat of sponsors and outrage of fans. Fan ownership fought off the super league in Germany.Speaking in Hartlepool, Boris Johnson has said it was "thanks to Brexit" that the government was able to pursue freeports, its own vaccine policy, and to fight off the European Super League. As far as I know, none of those are true.
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/st...66920697925634
Just my opinion, but I think this article describes the modern day Labour Party pretty well - Starmer’s PPS should have been sacked on the spot for that remark as it perfectly captures how out of touch so many of them are.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-keir-starmer
Good article.
I think he's got it right.
Especially the last paragraph on the direction Labour should take - but sadly not the one they/we will take. It will be double down.
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