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Thread: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

  1. #1

    Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme


  2. #2

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme


  3. #3

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Money for nothing.
    How the hell can Wales afford that?

  4. #4

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    Money for nothing.
    How the hell can Wales afford that?
    Drakeford says Westminster has to be on board for this to work, so there is your answer

  5. #5

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Drakeford says Westminster has to be on board for this to work, so there is your answer
    which is why independence is such utter stupidity

  6. #6

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    Money for nothing.
    How the hell can Wales afford that?
    it cant funding comes form Westminster and we chose between between stuff like universal income or new hospitals , police or teachers ,

    I's prefer a more dynamic approach and country with lower business taxes to create new jobs allowing to progress in life rather than claim a lifelong benefit with no aspiration

  7. #7

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Drakeford says Westminster has to be on board for this to work, so there is your answer
    Where did he say that? I know he said it for social care reform but haven't heard him say it in relation to this and I've read various articles about it.

    Maybe we'll find UBI pays for itself as it lessen the burden on an expensive and stretched NHS because all those people with dodgy ailments won't be clogging up the Doctors needing sick/fit notes and taking unnecessary perscriptions to avoid job seeking. This isn't a dig at the genuine who need support.

    However, there still needs to be a support mechanism for those who genuinely want to work.

  8. #8

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Are we going to trial the necessary tax increases as well?

  9. #9

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    it cant funding comes form Westminster and we chose between between stuff like universal income or new hospitals , police or teachers ,

    I's prefer a more dynamic approach and country with lower business taxes to create new jobs allowing to progress in life rather than claim a lifelong benefit with no aspiration
    I think the idea is trying to address the issue rather then fix when a problem.
    With universal income people will have better diets and access to a healthier lifestyle, reducing the burden on hospitals. Underpaid nurses won't need to do all the extra shifts and with a guaranteed basic income makes the job more attractive to those who are attracted to job but put off by the absolutely shite salary and conditions ergo more emphatic care. street level crime is always an economical issue, less need for police and low to middle incomes families won't need to do the extra job or hours and can dedicate that little bit to education at home and support the school as a community effort rather than a baby sitter during the day.

  10. #10

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    Are we going to trial the necessary tax increases as well?
    We don't need to. The Westminster government is good at finding money from thin air.

  11. #11

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by OurManFlint II View Post
    I think the idea is trying to address the issue rather then fix when a problem.
    With universal income people will have better diets and access to a healthier lifestyle, reducing the burden on hospitals. Underpaid nurses won't need to do all the extra shifts and with a guaranteed basic income makes the job more attractive to those who are attracted to job but put off by the absolutely shite salary and conditions ergo more emphatic care. street level crime is always an economical issue, less need for police and low to middle incomes families won't need to do the extra job or hours and can dedicate that little bit to education at home and support the school as a community effort rather than a baby sitter during the day.
    Do you really believe this?

  12. #12

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    We don't need to. The Westminster government is good at finding money from thin air.
    How does the Westminster government find "money from thin air"?

  13. #13

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Drakeford says Westminster has to be on board for this to work, so there is your answer
    Would that be because it would technically come under welfare, which isn't fully devolved?

  14. #14

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    How does the Westminster government find "money from thin air"?
    It starts a war.

  15. #15

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Coronavirus has taught us that Bank of England can set friendly repayment rates on debt where there is a need and that money can be used to bankroll large projects, but I still have some questions:

    - Presumably you still continue with State Pension (most of the benefits budget is taken by this) and disability/ill-health related benefits. That's a lot of bureaucracy which cannot be cut and therefore savings made are much smaller. The smaller the savings you can make the more you need to raise money from another source such as tax rises.

    - Universal Credit pilots started in April 2013 but the latest pilot for 'managed migration' meant to start in July 2019 hasn't begun yet partly due to covid delays. 8+ years on and UC as the new benefit system is still 18+ months from being up and running so how long will it take to implement UBI?

    - Wouldn't it be quicker to fix the problems with UC? Offer advance payments as a grant instead of a loan; remove minimum income floor/enforce it after two years instead of 12 months; don't recover overpayments made by official error; backdate limited capability for work/work related activity element to start of claim; allow those with pre-settled status to claim; stop targeting severely disabled couples as a source of your savings...

    The video above described creating a welfare floor and encouraging people into work and, 8+ years of challenges on, UC isn't a million miles away from that. There are issues for self-employed and it does target disabled people as place to make savings but UBI wouldn't fix the latter...

    Will be interesting to see outcome from the pilot. At this early stage I'm coming down on the tweak UC and get on with other projects but anyone criticising a SMART pilot being done, especially in light of numerous stories about Westminster wasting money spending on friends, is in another camp.

  16. #16

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    Where did he say that? I know he said it for social care reform but haven't heard him say it in relation to this and I've read various articles about it.

    Maybe we'll find UBI pays for itself as it lessen the burden on an expensive and stretched NHS because all those people with dodgy ailments won't be clogging up the Doctors needing sick/fit notes and taking unnecessary perscriptions to avoid job seeking. This isn't a dig at the genuine who need support.

    However, there still needs to be a support mechanism for those who genuinely want to work.
    from the Grauniad article
    Earlier this week a Welsh government spokesperson sounded a cautious note, saying: In principle, the idea of a universal basic income has its benefits. To introduce this in Wales would require an active commitment from the UK government as the welfare system is not devolved.

  17. #17

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    which is why independence is such utter stupidity
    Westminster have to be on board because welfare isn't fully devolved...

  18. #18

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    from the Grauniad article
    Thanks. I saw the spokesperson quote but noticed the comment wasn't attributed to Drakeford. It'll be interesting to see if Westminster are willing to use Wales (or a location in Wales) as an experiment to see if it can actually work and be cost effective by reducing the burden on other services and boosting the economy by effectively giving everyone including the poorly paid a better chance and making some important but woefully underpaid jobs (carers) more attractive.

  19. #19

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Westminster have to be on board because welfare isn't fully devolved...
    I am aware of that

    And of course Westminster have to be involved because we couldn't afford it

  20. #20

    Re: Wales to launch pilot universal basic income scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I am aware of that

    And of course Westminster have to be involved because we couldn't afford it
    If we got rid of the Senedd we might be able to afford it

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