Palestine Israel

[cityhammer]

I think it's important not to generalise too much.

Jewish people are some of the loveliest and funniest people on the planet.

Look at our very own Elliott Cantor, a lovely guy.

Also, at famous Jewish people like Larry David, Bernie Saunders, Jason Alexander etc... all very nice, generous and funny people.

It's important not to conflate Jewish people with the actions of the Israeli Government. Sanders in particular is very outspoken against the current Israeli regime.

I think you missed the point of blue matt's comment. it think he was referring to meeting Israelis rather than Jews.

The problem is that criticism of Israel gets roundly condemned as being anti-semetic, which of course it isnt. Criticism of the nation of Israel is not criticism of the Jewish faith and any attempt to portray it as such is divisive imo.

[Rjk]

I think you missed the point of blue matt's comment. it think he was referring to meeting Israelis rather than Jews.

The problem is that criticism of Israel gets roundly condemned as being anti-semetic, which of course it isnt. Criticism of the nation of Israel is not criticism of the Jewish faith and any attempt to portray it as such is divisive imo.

Criticism of Israel CAN be anti-Semitic, but it isn't always.

For example - If a prominent Jewish entertainer has done something - let's say David Baddiel has released a new children's book, and is holding an online Q&A about it, but instead of asking about the book, some people repeatedly ask him to denounce the actions of the Israeli state, and message him criticising the state of Israel - something he has absolutely nothing to do with.

that would seem pretty anti-Semitic, and it is the kind of thing that happens a lot

[surge]

In my opinion, if there is going to be any real change we need to be speak about the complex, usually ugly relationship between the nations (and their representatives) 6 weeks on from now when another news story has become more prominent. But how many comments do you think this thread will be getting at that point?

An interesting part of the story described below:

Twenty years ago, the prime minister of Israel was assassinated. The killer was a lone gunman, Israeli and Jewish, just like the prime minister. Lots of witnesses saw it happen; the assassin confessed immediately, that night, and has never recanted. But today, oddly, lots of people don’t believe it happened that way. And a question hangs over the country: did this act change the fate of the nation?

Part 2:Ephron takes the shirt Rabin was wearing on the night of the assassination from Israel to the U.S. to have it examined by a gunshot expert. A right-wing activist describes what the assassination meant to her and her settler movement -- a political victory. Hagai, the accomplice, argues with his mother over the details of the murder, and it becomes clear that even she believes in the conspiracy theories.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/570...ht-in-question

[The Hooded Claw]

Some really interesting points made here. This conflict is thousands of years old and there is no simple solution.

It just seems that it suits the agendas of certain people on both sides for this situation to carry on as it is, but this is one of those issues that the world can no longer turn its back on.

Both peoples have historically suffered hideous attempts to destroy them. Isn’t it time that the powers that be tried to sort this mess out, for the sake of the people they serve?

Unfortunately, the people in power have brainwashed the people they serve, stirring up hatred and ignorance.

As an aside, my mother’s ancestors were Russian Jews, persecuted by the Bolsheviks, who fled and landed in England (Barnstaple, I think) a little over a hundred years ago. I’m not biased either way though.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Some really interesting points made here. This conflict is thousands of years old and there is no simple solution.

It just seems that it suits the agendas of certain people on both sides for this situation to carry on as it is, but this is one of those issues that the world can no longer turn its back on.

Both peoples have historically suffered hideous attempts to destroy them. Isn’t it time that the powers that be tried to sort this mess out, for the sake of the people they serve?

Unfortunately, the people in power have brainwashed the people they serve, stirring up hatred and ignorance.

As an aside, my mother’s ancestors were Russian Jews, persecuted by the Bolsheviks, who fled and landed in England (Barnstaple, I think) a little over a hundred years ago. I’m not biased either way though.

There's no possibility of a solution while the USA supports Israel financially and and militaristically.

[Feedback]

Some really interesting points made here. This conflict is thousands of years old and there is no simple solution.

The arabs reached the levant in the 8th century, following the muslim conquest.

It just seems that it suits the agendas of certain people on both sides for this situation to carry on as it is, but this is one of those issues that the world can no longer turn its back on.

Both peoples have historically suffered hideous attempts to destroy them. Isn’t it time that the powers that be tried to sort this mess out, for the sake of the people they serve?

the arabs have invaded israel twice in the past 60 years, and twice have had their arses handed to them on a plate. At some point they will learn not to **** with the IDF

Unfortunately, the people in power have brainwashed the people they serve, stirring up hatred and ignorance.

it is a curious feature of this whole situation that Israel doesn't bomb the Fatah controlled west bank but does feel the need to retaliate against the Hamas controlled Gaza strip.

Even the Egyptians have little time for Hamas.

This indicates where the problem is.

[life on mars]

[QUOTE=Dobbo;5192157]

Iran are the backers of Hamas.Hamas's aim is to destroy Israel and create an islamic republic,so there is no way Israel can bring them to the negotiating table.

As Hamas are mainly in Gaza, and the more friendly opposition Fatah party are in West Bank, why not declare Gaza as a satellite aggressive state allow peaceful Palestinians to resettle in the West Bank give them a better standard of living and then rout out the bad eggs firing these rockets as they will never want peace for any reason at any time , Hamas even hate each other the current leader in 2016 wanted a peaceful discussions not rockets.. However as in most parties the rogue elements want greater aggression and a take over of the leadership .

[goats]

I guess neither side are willing to concede anything now after hating each other, and seeing so much carnage for so long. It’s hard to see how it will ever end.....

[Rjk]

The arabs reached the levant in the 8th century, following the muslim conquest.

the arabs have invaded israel twice in the past 60 years, and twice have had their arses handed to them on a plate. At some point they will learn not to **** with the IDF

it is a curious feature of this whole situation that Israel doesn't bomb the Fatah controlled west bank but does feel the need to retaliate against the Hamas controlled Gaza strip.

Even the Egyptians have little time for Hamas.

This indicates where the problem is.

FFS I think there's a lot more to it than that.

We aren't talking about bored delinquents who are wanting to " **** with the IDF" for a bit of fun .
These are desperate people, who have seen countless friends and family members murdered, and seen their people oppressed.
Education is low and misinformation is probably rife, the population is young and angry. It would be hard to design a better breeding ground for terrorists. If any of us were born there we would likely be exactly the same.


The Israeli line of "if they didn't launch rockets we wouldn't have to do air strikes" is really flawed.
It doesn't consider the oppression of people in Gaza in the first place.

[Rjk]

[QUOTE=life on mars;5192235]

As Hamas are mainly in Gaza, and the more friendly opposition Fatah party are in West Bank, why not declare Gaza as a satellite aggressive state allow peaceful Palestinians to resettle in the West Bank give them a better standard of living and then rout out the bad eggs firing these rockets as they will never want peace for any reason at any time , Hamas even hate each other the current leader in 2016 wanted a peaceful discussions not rockets.. However as in most parties the rogue elements want greater aggression and a take over of the leadership .

there are 2 million people in the Gaza strip - how many should be moved to another city before they move in on the "bad eggs"?

[stan butler]

Its like trying to beat up a giant when you are 5 foot tall , blind and have one hand tied behind your back

Since the state of Israel was formed more and more land has been stolen off the arabs

I would be fecking pissed off if my new next door neighbour kept moving the fence further into my garden

And all my other neighbours just stood by and watched

Which is exactly what is happening

Could it be that it's none of the other neighbours business so not getting involved and keeping out of it?

[Tuerto]

Could it be that it's none of the other neighbours business so not getting involved and keeping out of it?

Fair Play, Stan, you haven't really thought it through, have you?

[stan butler]

Fair Play, Stan, you haven't really thought it through, have you?

No
But my comment was regarding Sludge. If his neighbours were pinching his land and i was his other neighbour i'd just watch and not get involved

[Feedback]

FFS I think there's a lot more to it than that.

We aren't talking about bored delinquents who are wanting to " **** with the IDF" for a bit of fun .
These are desperate people, who have seen countless friends and family members murdered, and seen their people oppressed.
Education is low and misinformation is probably rife, the population is young and angry. It would be hard to design a better breeding ground for terrorists. If any of us were born there we would likely be exactly the same.


The Israeli line of "if they didn't launch rockets we wouldn't have to do air strikes" is really flawed.
It doesn't consider the oppression of people in Gaza in the first place.

yet the people of the West Bank aren't oppressed, or facing such an onslaught. Hamas are the problem, and the Gazans continually support them.

[Tuerto]

No
But my comment was regarding Sludge. If his neighbours were pinching his land and i was his other neighbour i'd just watch and not get involved

On that point, i completely agree with you.

[Rjk]

yet the people of the West Bank aren't oppressed, or facing such an onslaught. Hamas are the problem, and the Gazans continually support them.

so what do you think it is about "the Gazans" that means this happens, if not a result of the oppression from Israel?

[goats]

Do Palestinians move between the Gaza Strip and West Bank?

[goats]

No
But my comment was regarding Sludge. If his neighbours were pinching his land and i was his other neighbour i'd just watch and not get involved

Wimp

[Rjk]

Do Palestinians move between the Gaza Strip and West Bank?

I don't think it is allowed

[stan butler]

Wimp

[jon1959]

yet the people of the West Bank aren't oppressed, or facing such an onslaught. Hamas are the problem, and the Gazans continually support them.

The people of the West Bank aren’t oppressed? Wow!

[surge]

yet the people of the West Bank aren't oppressed, or facing such an onslaught. Hamas are the problem, and the Gazans continually support them.

Not going to pretend I'm an expert but a quick google shows Sky report from 15th of this month stating at least 11 dead in the West Bank. Are you saying there is onslaught but as much as there is in Hamas areas?

[stan butler]

Honest question why do posters care about what's happening in countries nowhere near to ours?
This is a genuine question

[Stanmore Bluebird]

Why are the Jews always the whipping boys for criticism? If you search on Wikipedia for current civil wars, you will notice that there are dozens of ongoing - very bloody and lengthy- conflicts in our world today. They have thousands of fatalities each year. I don’t see anyone on this board criticising these conflicts or countries involved. You should all leave off the the Jews. My belief is that both sides are to blame. Israel has a right wing repulsive government and prime minister- far away from the marvellous left wind idealists who started the country back in 1948.

The Gazeans live in awful conditions and attack Israel who can’t be blamed for retaliation. It isn’t only Israel’s fault for their conditions- Arabs in general should have left Israel alone after its creation rather than starting war after war.

No way should Israel and the Jews be blamed for everything that goes wrong in this world as fascists have done throughout time. The day of the downtrodden Jew/Israeli has long gone. They are right to defend themselves.

[Stanmore Bluebird]

Honest question why do posters care about what's happening in countries nowhere near to ours?
This is a genuine question

Exactly Stan; well said.