+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 15 of 15 FirstFirst ... 56789101112131415
Results 281 to 297 of 297

Thread: Palestine Israel

  1. #281

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Whoever is in charge with the current neighbours strategy to wipe then form the face of the earth they will remain defiant and in a few more years they will blow up those very same tunnels and buildings that threaten them and on we go and go and go .
    That's a very ignorant view of the situation. It's far more complex than that and there are many Israeli citizens, as I've mentioned above, who do not see the conflict in such polarised terms.

  2. #282
    International
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Baku, Azerbaijan
    Posts
    10,395

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Helen Wiggy View Post
    It will be interesting in a number of ways. He is the longest serving Israeli president and embodies modern Israel for a lot of Israelis. However, if he and Likud are ousted from power, I wouldn't expect to see any radical changes in the country.

    Lapid's party Yesh Atid is more centrist than Likud but they will have to work in coalition with Naftali Bennett and some other right-wing pro-annexation nationalists with unlikely chances of bringing greater calm to the region. People have been too optimistic too many times.
    Just a small point of order Mr Chairman. He is not the President, he's the Prime Minister

  3. #283

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Just a small point of order Mr Chairman. He is not the President, he's the Prime Minister
    I'm sorry, yes, I do know that. Slip of the finger.

  4. #284

    Re: Palestine Israel

    On Sunday, Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, voted on a new government that ended the 12-year rule of Benjamin Netanyahu, the longest-serving prime minister in Israeli history, The Guardian reports. The new government will be sworn in on Sunday after the coalition won a confidence vote. Naftali Bennett, the leader of the right-wing Yamina Party, will assume the position of prime minister until August 2023, after which Yair Lapid, a centrist opposition leader, would take over until 2025. The New York Times reports. Netanyahu faces corruption charges, and Israel has held four elections since 2019, according to The Associated Press
    Official then. Very small hope of progress after 2023 but very small as for reasons already stated.

  5. #285

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Same Shit , Different Day

    It will never end

    God Bless Secularism

  6. #286

    Re: Palestine Israel

    There are some radicals in this new coalition, but it's a lot more representative than the stitch ups that benji used to cobble together. The settlement expanders also can't hide in the background now. Under Netanyahu (especially in trumps term) they could push their agenda and gain big concessions at coalition forming time, then retreat into the shadows and watch someone else do their dirty work.


    Bennett, Lieberman and Abbas aren't my cup of tea, but they are pragmatists and they will negotiate. Yair Lapid has a tough job to keep it all on track. Hopefully Bennett doesn't try to tear the coalition apart towards the end of his 2 years as Pm.


    Of course, thank f*ck that Israel is well defended. Because let's be honest, if this Israel coalition can work constructively with an Arab party. Hamas and Islamic jihad will do whatever they can to mess it up via terrorism. If at any stage it looks like the Israeli government want to start exploring another peace strategy, then hamas and IJ will probably attempt to start another suicide bombing campaign.

  7. #287

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    There are some radicals in this new coalition, but it's a lot more representative than the stitch ups that benji used to cobble together. The settlement expanders also can't hide in the background now. Under Netanyahu (especially in trumps term) they could push their agenda and gain big concessions at coalition forming time, then retreat into the shadows and watch someone else do their dirty work.


    Bennett, Lieberman and Abbas aren't my cup of tea, but they are pragmatists and they will negotiate. Yair Lapid has a tough job to keep it all on track. Hopefully Bennett doesn't try to tear the coalition apart towards the end of his 2 years as Pm.


    Of course, thank f*ck that Israel is well defended. Because let's be honest, if this Israel coalition can work constructively with an Arab party. Hamas and Islamic jihad will do whatever they can to mess it up via terrorism. If at any stage it looks like the Israeli government want to start exploring another peace strategy, then hamas and IJ will probably attempt to start another suicide bombing campaign.
    Can't people see that all this will never end

    They will still be fighting in 500 years

  8. #288
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    11,324

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    There are some radicals in this new coalition, but it's a lot more representative than the stitch ups that benji used to cobble together. The settlement expanders also can't hide in the background now. Under Netanyahu (especially in trumps term) they could push their agenda and gain big concessions at coalition forming time, then retreat into the shadows and watch someone else do their dirty work.


    Bennett, Lieberman and Abbas aren't my cup of tea, but they are pragmatists and they will negotiate. Yair Lapid has a tough job to keep it all on track. Hopefully Bennett doesn't try to tear the coalition apart towards the end of his 2 years as Pm.


    Of course, thank f*ck that Israel is well defended. Because let's be honest, if this Israel coalition can work constructively with an Arab party. Hamas and Islamic jihad will do whatever they can to mess it up via terrorism. If at any stage it looks like the Israeli government want to start exploring another peace strategy, then hamas and IJ will probably attempt to start another suicide bombing campaign.
    The coalition only has opposition to Netanyahu to hold it together, and has stated already that it will avoid Palestine-Israel conflict issues (though how is a question as they are being played out on the streets of Israeli towns and Jerusalem, as well as the West Bank and Gaza) and focus on basic budget and state service issues. It is totally contradictory and unstable - spanning the centre left to the far right of the Knesset. Unless it morphs quickly into something else - and unless Bennett abandons his expansionist and racist ideology - it must surely collapse fairly soon. It might last long enough for Netanyahu to face the courts again and permanently lose his grip on power - but I doubt much more.

    Interesting that you see the main threat to peace in this situation as Hamas - not daily land theft, murder (by occupation forces and/or settlers - who seem to work hand in glove), detention without trial for hundreds of Palestinian adults and children, destruction of homes, crops and water supplies, apartheid state ideology and policies, elimination by Israel of any territorial basis for a future 2 state solution (still the 'answer' for most of the world), attacks on people wanting to pray at the Al Aqsa mosque, continuing blockade of Gaza (with Egypt) and the aftermath of a 'mowing the grass' campaign to destroy homes, hospitals, schools, the only Covid vaccination centre and much else in Gaza - alongside some Hamas military targets.

    Hamas is an authoritarian, often brutal and contradictory organisation - but it was formed in response to Israeli aggression against Palestinians and is democratically elected. It is certainly part of the problem - and may have committed war crimes with its rocket attacks on civilian targets - but any provocations or crimes that come from Hamas are dwarfed by those of Israel. David v Goliath and David is a Palestinian!

  9. #289

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    The coalition only has opposition to Netanyahu to hold it together, and has stated already that it will avoid Palestine-Israel conflict issues (though how is a question as they are being played out on the streets of Israeli towns and Jerusalem, as well as the West Bank and Gaza) and focus on basic budget and state service issues. It is totally contradictory and unstable - spanning the centre left to the far right of the Knesset. Unless it morphs quickly into something else - and unless Bennett abandons his expansionist and racist ideology - it must surely collapse fairly soon. It might last long enough for Netanyahu to face the courts again and permanently lose his grip on power - but I doubt much more.

    Interesting that you see the main threat to peace in this situation as Hamas - not daily land theft, murder (by occupation forces and/or settlers - who seem to work hand in glove), detention without trial for hundreds of Palestinian adults and children, destruction of homes, crops and water supplies, apartheid state ideology and policies, elimination by Israel of any territorial basis for a future 2 state solution (still the 'answer' for most of the world), attacks on people wanting to pray at the Al Aqsa mosque, continuing blockade of Gaza (with Egypt) and the aftermath of a 'mowing the grass' campaign to destroy homes, hospitals, schools, the only Covid vaccination centre and much else in Gaza - alongside some Hamas military targets.

    Hamas is an authoritarian, often brutal and contradictory organisation - but it was formed in response to Israeli aggression against Palestinians and is democratically elected. It is certainly part of the problem - and may have committed war crimes with its rocket attacks on civilian targets - but any provocations or crimes that come from Hamas are dwarfed by those of Israel. David v Goliath and David is a Palestinian!
    Thats a very one sided view you give there. A quick read of just the charter of Hamas, and a very quick Google of Hamas shows very different

  10. #290

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    Thats a very one sided view you give there. A quick read of just the charter of Hamas, and a very quick Google of Hamas shows very different
    Guess which country has broken the Geneva Convention more than just a few times

  11. #291

  12. #292

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Guess which country has broken the Geneva Convention more than just a few times
    I've got no intention of making excuses for the bad behaviour of the Israelis. Have a bit of an issue with those who defend the suicide bombers of Hamas and Islamic jihad though

  13. #293

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    I've got no intention of making excuses for the bad behaviour of the Israelis. Have a bit of an issue with those who defend the suicide bombers of Hamas and Islamic jihad though
    What is also of interest when people point out the disproportional element of it, Hamas and Islamic jihad do not act alone they are backed by very big powerful people and states, in fact if you consider the countries surrounding Israel who want their destruction or been to war with them , we may find that is disproportional.

  14. #294
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    11,324

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    I've got no intention of making excuses for the bad behaviour of the Israelis. Have a bit of an issue with those who defend the suicide bombers of Hamas and Islamic jihad though
    Who has defended suicide bombers of Hamas and Islamic Jihad?

  15. #295
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    11,324

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    What is also of interest when people point out the disproportional element of it, Hamas and Islamic jihad do not act alone they are backed by very big powerful people and states, in fact if you consider the countries surrounding Israel who want their destruction or been to war with them , we may find that is disproportional.
    Israel is a nuclear power (shouldn't be - but is) and has the 16th or 17th most powerful armed forces in the world, and a much higher military budget than many of the other world powers in the top 20. The only regional power that has anything like an equivalent force is Iran. Iran certainly gets some arms into Gaza - but not much. Against that the USA acts as a military guarantor for Israel and along with the EU, UK, Australia, Canada etc provides near full diplomatic cover and deflects all attempts to hold Israel accountable for its actions in the UN or its agencies. None of that - or the other infrastructure of financial, military, diplomatic and propaganda support - applies to the other main powers in the region.

    But all that is just a smokescreen thrown up by apologists.

    This is not a war of equal protagonists - it is the full might of the Israeli state and its settler vigilantes in daily conflict with civilians, sometimes (if rarely) Palestinian police in the West Bank, stone throwing protestors (hundreds shot dead by IOF snipers) and the military wing of Hamas. Hamas is a brutal, fundamentalist and often oppressive organisation - but it is incapable of 'competing' in any way with the Israeli military. To argue that Israel is on the wrong side of the regional balance of power is to ignore the evidence of death and destruction over the past 70 odd years - a sick league table that demonstrates the imbalance of resources (political and material) and the worth shown by the media and major powers for different lives.

    (How long before this thread is moved out of sight?)

  16. #296

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Israel is a nuclear power (shouldn't be - but is) and has the 16th or 17th most powerful armed forces in the world, and a much higher military budget than many of the other world powers in the top 20. The only regional power that has anything like an equivalent force is Iran. Iran certainly gets some arms into Gaza - but not much. Against that the USA acts as a military guarantor for Israel and along with the EU, UK, Australia, Canada etc provides near full diplomatic cover and deflects all attempts to hold Israel accountable for its actions in the UN or its agencies. None of that - or the other infrastructure of financial, military, diplomatic and propaganda support - applies to the other main powers in the region.

    But all that is just a smokescreen thrown up by apologists.

    This is not a war of equal protagonists - it is the full might of the Israeli state and its settler vigilantes in daily conflict with civilians, sometimes (if rarely) Palestinian police in the West Bank, stone throwing protestors (hundreds shot dead by IOF snipers) and the military wing of Hamas. Hamas is a brutal, fundamentalist and often oppressive organisation - but it is incapable of 'competing' in any way with the Israeli military. To argue that Israel is on the wrong side of the regional balance of power is to ignore the evidence of death and destruction over the past 70 odd years - a sick league table that demonstrates the imbalance of resources (political and material) and the worth shown by the media and major powers for different lives.

    (How long before this thread is moved out of sight?)
    Could Ignore it .

    People are allowed a view even if it doesn't fit with yours.

  17. #297

    Re: Palestine Israel

    One thing I'm interested in is what the various sides see as an acceptable endpoint.

    yes there there are some in Hamas who want the Israeli's to leave the region and return it to a Palestinian state.
    Clearly that is not at all practical or even possible.

    Other Palestinians (probably the majority) just want to live in viable Palestinian country free from oppression from Israel and its settlers. This is increasingly difficult to see how this could happen, as the remaining pockets of Palestinian land aren't conducive to a functioning economy, even without the economic restrictions.


    On the Israeli side there are extremists who want all the land for Israel and for the Palestinians to go away. And again there are the vast majority who just want to get on with their lives in peace.

    The two solutions people regularly talk about are the 1 and 2 state solutions.

    A 1 state solution whereby all the land is absorbed into Israel has some advantages, as the Palestinian people would be able to participate in an advanced rich country. However, there would be much fear and mistrust of each other on both sides, which would make it very difficult to sell this idea. Also in this larger Israel, the Muslim population would outnumber the Jewish population, and is increasing much more rapidly - so this new country would not be a Jewish nation, or it would have to exist with Arabs as second class citizens unable to vote - OR much of the Arab population would have to be expelled to other countries.
    Clearly many Israeli's would never want Israel not to be a Jewish nation, but the other possibilities are abominable.


    The 2 state solution is what most Palestinians would prefer, but in order for it to be viable I think Israel would need to scale back significantly its expansions and allow a viable state to develop. I can't see any appetite from Israel to allow that to happen.

    Where we are today is in a weird half way house, whereby Israel is expanding its borders and making new settlements, making either solution less feasible.

    It seems to me that Israel is benefitting a lot more from maintaining the status quo - as they can expand and still have a Jewish nation, but it surely isn't a situation that can go on indefinitely

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •