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Thread: Palestine Israel

  1. #301
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    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    is this a serious post?
    No of course not, it's a truthpaste post!!!!
    He's been in hiding but Jon flushed him out.

  2. #302

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The bible is the cause of all this bollocks in the first place
    Unfortunately you didn't do very well proving that point on the other thread - re Religion.

    Let's see you do a little better here. And if you actually know the difference!

  3. #303

    Re: Palestine Israel

    My neighbours are a family from Palestine. They are by some distance the most friendly neighbours we have. Much more open, talkative and friendly than the local people in my street (Vitoria-Gasteiz, Euskal Herria).

    The couple, who have three lovely kids, are studying their PHD here. They are researching the effects of sports in promoting social mobility and welfare. Souleman, the husband has told us some incredible stories of the treatment they have received from the Israelis, truly harrowing and heartbreaking.

    I don't know what historical issues the Israelis have with the people of the occupied territories, but the fact perfectly well adjusted and decent people have to go through some of the stuff these people have gone through is just awful.

    What I found amazing, aside from the experiences they have had of seeing friends being shot in front of them, is that fact that even within the Palestinian territories, the locals have to go through numerous checkpoints to go from one city to another ....again , this is within Palestine, without even setting foot in Israeli occupied territories. The israeli troops are incredibly zealous and trigger-happy on top of this, so people just don't bother leaving their cities.

    He also explained to me how the Israelis use the religious elements as an excuse to continue their actions, but that it actually has very little to do with the situation.....

    They are moving back to Palestine in October after three years here in the Basque Country. Their friends think they are mad and that they should stay in Europe, but they are determined to go back and work in education, in order to help their country progress. Proper admirable attitude, fair play.

  4. #304
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    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    My neighbours are a family from Palestine. They are by some distance the most friendly neighbours we have. Much more open, talkative and friendly than the local people in my street (Vitoria-Gasteiz, Euskal Herria).

    The couple, who have three lovely kids, are studying their PHD here. They are researching the effects of sports in promoting social mobility and welfare. Souleman, the husband has told us some incredible stories of the treatment they have received from the Israelis, truly harrowing and heartbreaking.

    I don't know what historical issues the Israelis have with the people of the occupied territories, but the fact perfectly well adjusted and decent people have to go through some of the stuff these people have gone through is just awful.

    What I found amazing, aside from the experiences they have had of seeing friends being shot in front of them, is that fact that even within the Palestinian territories, the locals have to go through numerous checkpoints to go from one city to another ....again , this is within Palestine, without even setting foot in Israeli occupied territories. The israeli troops are incredibly zealous and trigger-happy on top of this, so people just don't bother leaving their cities.

    He also explained to me how the Israelis use the religious elements as an excuse to continue their actions, but that it actually has very little to do with the situation.....

    They are moving back to Palestine in October after three years here in the Basque Country. Their friends think they are mad and that they should stay in Europe, but they are determined to go back and work in education, in order to help their country progress. Proper admirable attitude, fair play.
    that's a fair story. Have you spoken with any Israelis and taken on board their position so you can form a balanced opinion?

  5. #305

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    My neighbours are a family from Palestine. They are by some distance the most friendly neighbours we have. Much more open, talkative and friendly than the local people in my street (Vitoria-Gasteiz, Euskal Herria).

    The couple, who have three lovely kids, are studying their PHD here. They are researching the effects of sports in promoting social mobility and welfare. Souleman, the husband has told us some incredible stories of the treatment they have received from the Israelis, truly harrowing and heartbreaking.

    I don't know what historical issues the Israelis have with the people of the occupied territories, but the fact perfectly well adjusted and decent people have to go through some of the stuff these people have gone through is just awful.

    What I found amazing, aside from the experiences they have had of seeing friends being shot in front of them, is that fact that even within the Palestinian territories, the locals have to go through numerous checkpoints to go from one city to another ....again , this is within Palestine, without even setting foot in Israeli occupied territories. The israeli troops are incredibly zealous and trigger-happy on top of this, so people just don't bother leaving their cities.

    He also explained to me how the Israelis use the religious elements as an excuse to continue their actions, but that it actually has very little to do with the situation.....

    They are moving back to Palestine in October after three years here in the Basque Country. Their friends think they are mad and that they should stay in Europe, but they are determined to go back and work in education, in order to help their country progress. Proper admirable attitude, fair play.
    It would also be honest to point out that In Israel, Muslims can freely run businesses and live there with their families, something I've personally witnessed when I've visited Israel. On the other hand, a Jew found anywhere within the borders of Palenstine is in immediate and constant danger, and he/ she would have to be insane to open a business there.

  6. #306

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    You say Israel is benefitting by expanding it's boarders, yet their current boarders are a small fraction of the original land they were given >> Biblical BORDERS OF ISRAEL
    Given by who?

  7. #307

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Read the short article in the link (above)

  8. #308

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    that's a fair story. Have you spoken with any Israelis and taken on board their position so you can form a balanced opinion?
    Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine any justification for the types of things this guy has told me.

    The guy is pretty upfront about stuff. He told me that Israeli troops entered his city in armoured tanks looking for "a baddie" and that when kids started throwing stones at them , they returned with live rounds. He said " My friend and me ran and then I felt liquid on my face and when I looked my friend had been shot in the head "....he pointed at his forehead and had tears in his eyes.

    He also told me that he once tried to go from his city to visit his wife in another Palestinian town in the West Bank and that a journey that should take half an hour takes hours due to check-point controls. ON one of these occasions a soldier spoke to the guy in Hebrew and he responded in English saying that he didn't understand Hebrew. The soldier told him that he is in Israel and should speak Hebrew. My neighbour responded telling him that he is in Palestine and should therefore speak Arabic. He was then made to get out of the car and sit in ,what he described, as a pit in the ground until morning.

    Again, this guy is studying a PHD in a foreign country....he not some scrote I bumped into in a bar. Proper nice, friendly people. I asked the guy once for a recipe for Falafel....he said "wait a sec, I've got some in the freezer, I'll bring some over to you" ....it's no polygraph test, but he sure seems like a decent and honest bloke to me.

    If I spoke to an Israeli , is there anything at all that he could say that would justify the things I've mentioned above ?

    For me there isn't.

  9. #309

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    It would also be honest to point out that In Israel, Muslims can freely run businesses and live there with their families, something I've personally witnessed when I've visited Israel. On the other hand, a Jew found anywhere within the borders of Palenstine is in immediate and constant danger, and he/ she would have to be insane to open a business there.
    I think you are referring to "The 48" (or "48 Palestinians") as my friend refers to them. People who remained after the occupation . From what he has told me, it's a nightmare to get into Israel if not.

    Also , it's the Israelis that prohibit jews from entering Palestine.

  10. #310

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Read the short article in the link (above)
    That seems to suggest that God designated Israel's borders and you're using that as a reference

  11. #311

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    That seems to suggest that God designated Israel's borders and you're using that as a reference
    Even then it states that the lands should belong to "the descendents" of Abraham, which I think applies just as much to Moslems as it does to Jewish people.

    Ignoring the slightly problematic point that there is no god and he/she never gave the land to anyone in the first place.

  12. #312

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Even then it states that the lands should belong to "the descendents" of Abraham, which I think applies just as much to Moslems as it does to Jewish people.

    Ignoring the slightly problematic point that there is no god and he/she never gave the land to anyone in the first place.
    Wishful thinking (because it's a meeting you are not looking forward to - see Hebrews 9v27) is irrelevant in this discussion.

    That's unless you can explain definitively how (mostly) intelligent life began from chance random processes?

  13. #313

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Wishful thinking (because it's a meeting you are not looking forward to - see Hebrews 9v27) is irrelevant in this discussion.

    That's unless you can explain definitively how (mostly) intelligent life began from chance random processes?
    Yes I thnk I can give a pretty good explanation of my understanding of how that works.

    Can you explain how an almighty god somehow began? surely that's a lot more of a leap than single celled life emerging spontaneously?

  14. #314

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Yes I thnk I can give a pretty good explanation of my understanding of how that works.

    Can you explain how an almighty god somehow began? surely that's a lot more of a leap than single celled life emerging spontaneously?
    You are wasting your time

    He's one of those religious types

    It's all fairy tales in the sky , you can baffle them with science but there is always a get out clause ......I believe ......so it must be true

    Cobblers

  15. #315

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Unfortunately you didn't do very well proving that point on the other thread - re Religion.

    Let's see you do a little better here. And if you actually know the difference!
    I thought I did very well

    I asked the bible bashers to give me evidence of God, just one bit .

    They gave me nothing .

  16. #316
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    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    That seems to suggest that God designated Israel's borders and you're using that as a reference
    That is the beginning and end of Truthpaste's contribution.

    God Almighty.... Good Book.... Chosen People.... The ramblings of a bronze age shaman (tweaked and modified through word of mouth and finally written down centuries later) becomes the sole and unarguable justification for decades of persecution and ethnic cleansing. And because the Israeli state has taken it's time about driving Palestinians out of the territory described in the Old Testament, they are somehow to be praised for restraint!

    That may not have been the only strand of historic Zionism, but it is the dominant one today. It also explains why there are so many more Christian Zionists about than Jewish Zionists - including tens of millions of evangelicals in North America (like Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo in the Trump government). But some of the most courageous anti-Zionists are Jewish themselves, and some of the most effective campaigners for Palestinian human rights are Jewish people living in Israel.

    It is becoming ever more difficult to see how a two state 'solution' can be introduced after the creeping colonisation and bantuisation of the occupied territories - no Palestinian state is viable now. A one state solution can only be an ethno-religious apartheid state of the sort Netanyahu and Bennett are moving towards, or a democratic state of citizens with equal rights - which is anathema to Zionists.

  17. #317

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    You are wasting your time

    He's one of those religious types

    It's all fairy tales in the sky , you can baffle them with science but there is always a get out clause ......I believe ......so it must be true

    Cobblers
    And so you demonstrate how well you did.

    Also 'following the science' (or trying to baffle others with it) as any government will tell you isn't as clear as you might wish given the evidence of 2020/21.

    You like Jon are without reason for being or any idea where you originated from, yet you think you can resolve a 4000 year old problem in the Middle East.

    Very amusing.

  18. #318

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    And so you demonstrate how well you did.

    Also 'following the science' (or trying to baffle others with it) as any government will tell you isn't as clear as you might wish given the evidence of 2020/21.

    You like Jon are without reason for being or any idea where you originated from, yet you think you can resolve a 4000 year old problem in the Middle East.

    Very amusing.
    Here is the question again

    Give me evidence .........and that doesn't mean well it says in the bible etc ........that God , Jesus and Heaven Exists

    I know you don't have any , as there isn't any , but give it a go

    It will be very amusing

  19. #319

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Here is the question again

    Give me evidence .........and that doesn't mean well it says in the bible etc ........that God , Jesus and Heaven Exists

    I know you don't have any , as there isn't any , but give it a go

    It will be very amusing
    Well let's see, what about the most atheistic company in Europe, the BBC. They spent £1.5M in producing "SON OF GOD" in 2001 and naturally had a willing atheist at hand to host it:-

    "Jeremy Bowen, a former Middle East correspondent for BBC News, was chosen to present the programme for its UK broadcast. Despite not being religious, he was drawn to the programme for its use of scientific and historical information. As well as presenting, Bowen also narrated and scripted large portions of the series. He stated that he brought a degree of scepticism to the show: before the first episode aired, he admitted that he did not think that you could "corroborate anything that was in the Gospels".

    The first episode of Son of God, "The Real Man", documents Jesus's life up to his temptation, and details the historical evidence for his existence. Bowen visits Jerusalem, where he calls Jesus's death "one of the best attested facts in ancient history".[e 1] He cites the Romano-Jewish historian Josephus as one of 80 sources that confirms that Jesus existed and that describes him as "a wise man who did surprising feats, ... won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, ... was accused by the Jewish leaders, [and] was condemned to be crucified by Pilate"

    The full article can be found HERE

    Seems like not even the BBC can shout for your team on this one?

  20. #320

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Well let's see, what about the most atheistic company in Europe, the BBC.
    The BBC broadasts 'Songs of Praise', 'Prayer for The Day', 'Sunday Worship', 'Act of Worship', 'Daily Service', 'Heaven and Earth' and many other religious programmes besides the one you went on to comment on - all of which makes your comment above rather silly.

  21. #321

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    The BBC broadasts 'Songs of Praise', 'Prayer for The Day', 'Sunday Worship', 'Act of Worship', 'Daily Service', 'Heaven and Earth' and many other religious programmes besides the one you went on to comment on - all of which makes your comment above rather silly.
    Are you joking! With the very rare exception, few people would discover anything about the Gospel by watching SOP.

    As for 'Heaven & Earth' - there would be more helpful spiritual material in The Simpsons.

    Unfortunately the BBC have no idea which way is up.

  22. #322

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Well let's see, what about the most atheistic company in Europe, the BBC. They spent £1.5M in producing "SON OF GOD" in 2001 and naturally had a willing atheist at hand to host it:-

    "Jeremy Bowen, a former Middle East correspondent for BBC News, was chosen to present the programme for its UK broadcast. Despite not being religious, he was drawn to the programme for its use of scientific and historical information. As well as presenting, Bowen also narrated and scripted large portions of the series. He stated that he brought a degree of scepticism to the show: before the first episode aired, he admitted that he did not think that you could "corroborate anything that was in the Gospels".

    The first episode of Son of God, "The Real Man", documents Jesus's life up to his temptation, and details the historical evidence for his existence. Bowen visits Jerusalem, where he calls Jesus's death "one of the best attested facts in ancient history".[e 1] He cites the Romano-Jewish historian Josephus as one of 80 sources that confirms that Jesus existed and that describes him as "a wise man who did surprising feats, ... won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, ... was accused by the Jewish leaders, [and] was condemned to be crucified by Pilate"

    The full article can be found HERE

    Seems like not even the BBC can shout for your team on this one?
    Well in 1000 years it will found that mick McCarthy existed

    But he didn't have magic powers or rise from the dead

    So some bloke might or might not have existed and was possibly called Jesus 🤔

    According to a load of blokes long dead

    What about his old man and the big place in the sky ? 🤔

    It's all bollocks

  23. #323

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Are you joking! With the very rare exception, few people would discover anything about the Gospel by watching SOP.

    As for 'Heaven & Earth' - there would be more helpful spiritual material in The Simpsons.

    Unfortunately the BBC have no idea which way is up.
    Most people have no interest in the gospel

    Why do you think that is ?

  24. #324

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Are you joking! With the very rare exception, few people would discover anything about the Gospel by watching SOP.

    As for 'Heaven & Earth' - there would be more helpful spiritual material in The Simpsons.

    Unfortunately the BBC have no idea which way is up.
    No, I wasn't joking. I stated facts whereas you made the most ludicrous and unsubstantiated sweeping statement.

  25. #325

    Re: Palestine Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Well let's see, what about the most atheistic company in Europe, the BBC. They spent £1.5M in producing "SON OF GOD" in 2001 and naturally had a willing atheist at hand to host it:-

    "Jeremy Bowen, a former Middle East correspondent for BBC News, was chosen to present the programme for its UK broadcast. Despite not being religious, he was drawn to the programme for its use of scientific and historical information. As well as presenting, Bowen also narrated and scripted large portions of the series. He stated that he brought a degree of scepticism to the show: before the first episode aired, he admitted that he did not think that you could "corroborate anything that was in the Gospels".

    The first episode of Son of God, "The Real Man", documents Jesus's life up to his temptation, and details the historical evidence for his existence. Bowen visits Jerusalem, where he calls Jesus's death "one of the best attested facts in ancient history".[e 1] He cites the Romano-Jewish historian Josephus as one of 80 sources that confirms that Jesus existed and that describes him as "a wise man who did surprising feats, ... won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, ... was accused by the Jewish leaders, [and] was condemned to be crucified by Pilate"

    The full article can be found HERE

    Seems like not even the BBC can shout for your team on this one?
    I know a woman who can do surprising feats

    From Bridgend

    She's a magician , of a sort

    But nobody has written a book about her

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