Palestine Israel

[truthpaste]

Churchill didn't win us the war , the men and women of all nationalities .......and he didn't like them ......did

He didn't do any fighting at all

And when it ended he carved up Europe and many people died in ethnic cleansing as he and others stood by

Don't bring him into this debate please 🙄

I didn't say that he did win us the war, try reading what is said rather than addressing something that hasn't been said!
I asked, was he WRONG to say what he did, yes or no?

[Dorcus]

I think I understand very well.

What sort of 'dialogue' do you expect? You will not convert me to supernatural beliefs or to unquestioning and total acceptance of the literal truth of the Old Testament.

You have adopted a world view that is irrational, and leads to systemic state racism and abuse - with your full unqualified support.

And you have the gall to accuse me of hatred? I hate your belief system - which presumably also includes barbaric and inhuman views on sexual orientation, adultery and alternative beliefs to your own? The supposed 'word of God' covers a lot of categories and Bronze Age transgressions. But I don't hate you. Pity maybe.

There have been at least half a dozen other posters who have strong religious beliefs and have contributed to the threads on religion and faith. I disagree with most of them but have no problem discussing the issues, am interested in their views, and sometimes finding some areas of common ground. But fundamentalist evangelicals like you occupy a space beyond debate. You belong in Gilead!

It fills me with despair that these people still. spout their nonsense on this subject, and I don't discriminate on religion; they certainly aren't exclusive to Christianity nor Judaism.

From a more encouraging perspective I believe more and more people are seeing through this indoctrination and adopting Humanist beliefs. I live in hope this will eventually lead to a more peaceful and equitable world.

[jon1959]

It fills me with despair that these people still. spout their nonsense on this subject, and I don't discriminate on religion; they certainly aren't exclusive to Christianity nor Judaism.

From a more encouraging perspective I believe more and more people are seeing through this indoctrination and adopting Humanist beliefs. I live in hope this will eventually lead to a more peaceful and equitable world.

No, they also explain the rise of radical Islamist views and Hindu fundamentalism.

If it just exists in someone's head, or amongst a group of like-minded cultists, it probably does little harm. The problems come when the adherents get off their shopping centre soap boxes and lead or influence governments, or street mobs, and the cults grow into mass movements. That has happened in Iran and India, on a smaller scale in Israel, and many other places, with governmental cheer-leaders in the USA (at least under Trump), Brazil and even some states in Europe.

I hope you are right about the growth of humanist beliefs. I think there has been a move in the last half century away from unquestioning religious beliefs in many parts of the world, but at the same time a hardening and growth of fundamentalism in Islam, Judaism and Christianity - and maybe the Hindu faith too.

Maybe two steps forward and one step back?

[truthpaste]

No, they also explain the rise of radical Islamist views and Hindu fundamentalism.

If it just exists in someone's head, or amongst a group of like-minded cultists, it probably does little harm. The problems come when the adherents get off their shopping centre soap boxes and lead or influence governments, or street mobs, and the cults grow into mass movements. That has happened in Iran and India, on a smaller scale in Israel, and many other places, with governmental cheer-leaders in the USA (at least under Trump), Brazil and even some states in Europe.

I hope you are right about the growth of humanist beliefs. I think there has been a move in the last half century away from unquestioning religious beliefs in many parts of the world, but at the same time a hardening and growth of fundamentalism in Islam, Judaism and Christianity - and maybe the Hindu faith too.

Maybe two steps forward and one step back?

Jon, as you are a great supporter of it, please share one attractive guarantee that humanism provides in an uncertain world that is life in 2021?

[jon1959]

Jon, as you are a great supporter of it, please share one attractive guarantee that humanism provides in an uncertain world that is life in 2021?

I don't know that there are any guarantees. But I prefer rational to irrational beliefs, and think we have no choice than to put our faith (though not in the sense that you would use the word) in people rather than invented supernatural beings. I want governments, pushed by public opinion, to make decisions that prevent climate catastrophe. I don't believe that chanting to some random deity is as effective as collective social and political action for the benefit of humanity and the planet. In the uncertain world of 2021 that seems to me to be the way to go. We are the most creative and destructive life form on this planet and we need to get our act together fast. No delusions. No distractions.

[truthpaste]

I don't know that there are any guarantees. But I prefer rational to irrational beliefs, and think we have no choice than to put our faith (though not in the sense that you would use the word) in people rather than invented supernatural beings. I want governments, pushed by public opinion, to make decisions that prevent climate catastrophe. I don't believe that chanting to some random deity is as effective as collective social and political action for the benefit of humanity and the planet. In the uncertain world of 2021 that seems to me to be the way to go. We are the most creative and destructive life form on this planet and we need to get our act together fast. No delusions. No distractions.

Like you say - "We are the most creative and destructive life form on this planet" - and in doing so you correctly note that despite occasional brilliance, something in man is defective. Apart from Christ, and the Solution that He provides (which doesn't mean chanting at all or an irrational belief in some mythical being), how does saving our environment (even if we succeed) help with our internal human problem?