Palestine Israel

[Gofer Blue]

BBC news says that both Israel and Hamas are "declaring victory". The words joke and sick come to mind. Another generation being raised to hate more like.

[goats]

BBC news says that both Israel and Hamas are "declaring victory". The words joke and sick come to mind. Another generation being raised to hate more like.

Bizarre to issue such statements...

[life on mars]

israel have agreed a ceasefire great news indeed

they just need to unload a few tonnes of missiles from the laden F16's safer to launch them rather than handle them on runways i hear

250 million pounds worth of tunnels destroyed I guess , wonder how many schools and hospitals that would have built ?

[Rjk]

250 million pounds worth of tunnels destroyed I guess , wonder how many schools and hospitals that would have built ?

why bother building them the Israelis will only flatten them

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

BBC news says that both Israel and Hamas are "declaring victory". The words joke and sick come to mind. Another generation being raised to hate more like.

Ain't that the truth

[bigjoe]

USA has been an Israel "supporter" but there seems to be a demographic shift there, especially for the Democrats. Biden could become less vociferous though I suppose his "every country has a right to defend itself" might be to avoid the USA of being accused of hypocrisy when they bomb somebody. The Republicans might become less supportive of Israel as well as the Bibi/Trump love-in didn't seem to translate into worthwhile extra Jewish votes.

[life on mars]

why bother building them the Israelis will only flatten them

Only if fired at from Gaza , either act is irresponsible as both acts kill .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

when the article says

"how do you feel living in a house built on the wreckage of his house?"

this would indicate the Jewish couple are not living in the house of the Palestinians, but in a newly built house that is on the same site as the Palestinians' former house. Do we know why the Palestinian's house was demolished? The article does not say, and we both know its not a good idea to speculate in matters such as this.

I will speculate for you

The Israeli government and a sizeable proportion of the citizens it governs are arrogant bullies who continue to encroach on Arab land

And one eyed religious fanatics who don't care as they are backed up by the huge Jewish lobby in the states

Thats about it really

I remember the Jewish society in college had a stall during freshers week and they were handing out leaflets about the mistreatment of Russian Jews. Let's just say some of the Palestinian support group were told they were not welcome when the Jewish societies double standards were pointed out .

[Feedback]

I will speculate for you

The Israeli government and a sizeable proportion of the citizens it governs are arrogant bullies who continue to encroach on Arab land

And one eyed religious fanatics who don't care as they are backed up by the huge Jewish lobby in the states

Thats about it really

I remember the Jewish society in college had a stall during freshers week and they were handing out leaflets about the mistreatment of Russian Jews. Let's just say some of the Palestinian support group were told they were not welcome when the Jewish societies double standards were pointed out .

I'm not sure how your anecdote is relevant to the current conflict but there you go

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'm not sure how your anecdote is relevant to the current conflict but there you go

The anecdotes are that the Israeli government and its citizens are , on the whole , bullies

As are those who vociferously support Israeli policy in the middle East

[Feedback]

Feedback.

I like your posts. And you, like me, are one of the oldest serving members of this board.

But I think you are in denial as to the Israeli policy of settlements which is done at the expense of Palestinians.

No I'm not in denial. I'm well aware that Israel encroaches on area C (or it it area A) in the West Bank and they build settlements - this is pretty much common knowledge.

I was asking about this one particular case in point. Just because I wanted background and context on this one example doesn't mean I'm oblivious to the wider issue.

[Feedback]

The anecdotes are that the Israeli government and its citizens are , on the whole , bullies

As are those who vociferously support Israeli policy in the middle East

How do you think the Israelis should behave when a fair proportion of its neighbours want to see it destroyed, so much so they have joined forces to attack it twice in living memory ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

How do you think the Israelis should behave when a fair proportion of its neighbours want to see it destroyed, so much so they have joined forces to attack it twice in living memory ?

Get better defences

If you are living in someone's house and they want you out , which is understandable , you make the walls thicker

[Feedback]

Get better defences

If you are living in someone's house and they want you out , which is understandable , you make the walls thicker

What about the tunnels, the kidnappings, the rockets? How does Israel defend against those?

[Rjk]

What about the tunnels, the kidnappings, the rockets? How does Israel defend against those?

if Britain had responded to northern Ireland terrorism with air strikes, killing hundreds of children there would not be peace in northern Ireland today.

[Feedback]

if Britain had responded to northern Ireland terrorism with air strikes, killing hundreds of children there would not be peace in northern Ireland today.

Thats because the British would be firing on British citizens if they did that.

[Rjk]

Thats because the British would be firing on British citizens if they did that.

but if they'd identified IRA leaders in a tower block across the border in Ireland you'd be ok with it?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

What about the tunnels, the kidnappings, the rockets? How does Israel defend against those?

Get america to give them money to shoot down the mostly feeble rockets fired against them

Mossad kidnaps Palestinians, Palestinians kidnap Israelis

Pay for better anti tunneling detection equipment , they have lots of money

If I moved into someone's house I would be prepared for them to be pissed off for a very very long time

[Feedback]

but if they'd identified IRA leaders in a tower block across the border in Ireland you'd be ok with it?

You're creating a strawman and I'm not getting involved

[Feedback]

Get america to give them money to shoot down the mostly feeble rockets fired against them

Mossad kidnaps Palestinians, Palestinians kidnap Israelis

Pay for better anti tunneling detection equipment , they have lots of money

If I moved into someone's house I would be prepared for them to be pissed off for a very very long time

Thats marriage for you

[Feedback]

On page 2 of this thread Feedback posted:

"the arabs have invaded israel twice in the past 60 years, and twice have had their arses handed to them on a plate. At some point they will learn not to **** with the IDF"

It's possible that they were having a bad moment but several posts now from them have been about "being aware of our own bias" or "think critically about 'evidence'" we see online, which is all very noble, but a significant change in tone. They've also spent 9 messages questioning evidence of encroachment into Palestinian land only to post that it's common knowledge in their 10th post on the subject.

Again a very noble change in direction, but what should we really be focusing on instead?

The Web Editor of Jewish News posted this yesterday: https://twitter.com/Mendelpol/status...98089231626243



The eyes of the world are turning to something else but they really shouldn't be. If Hamas claim the only time the plight of Palestine is paid attention to is with rockets and Israeli government say they're under threat of violence can we say either is lying? But the Israeli government responds to that threat in an oppressive and hardline way in moments of ceasefire, and progress can only be made when attention is paid in times of relative peace.

My position hasn't changed. It's a cluster**** of a shitshow with neither side preparedto back down.

I agree it's a bit one sided but it's easy to say Israel should show restraint when you're sat here in the relative safety of the UK.

Israel has a right to defend itself and its citizens. If Hamas didn't kidnap and/or fire rockets then Israel would have no (legitimate) reason.

I dont know what the answer is, maybe a single state where all races and religions have equal status protected by law.

Until they both learn to get along, things will continue and people on both sides will be killed

[chrisp_1927]

Got no time for the settlers and settlements whatsoever. But a few people seem to want to suggest that the whole state of Israel is on stolen land, which is quite frankly bollocks. Let's not pretend that all the hatred towards them from their neighbours is down to settlements and continued encroachment. Ham's and Hezbollah hate them because they are Jews, and because they exist as Jews. Criticism of the excesses of the Israeli right is completely justified, but to many like Sludge go for crass generalisations that attempt to deligitimise the whole country

[life on mars]

I'd like to know why we haven't had the same debate and rage about Turkeys incursion into Northern Iraq and the twenty thousand deaths including women and children, thousands March in cities around the world because of Israel incursions and actions ,anyone explain why there is a disproportionate outrage?

Plus China incursions.

Plus Russian incursions.

It's fairly clear folk hate the Israelis and Jews.

[surge]

I'd like to know why we haven't had the same debate and rage about Turkeys incursion into Northern Iraq and the twenty thousand deaths including women and children, thousands March in cities around the world because of Israel incursions and actions ,anyone explain why there is a disproportionate outrage?

Plus China incursions.

Plus Russian incursions.

It's fairly clear folk hate the Israelis and Jews.

I have put forward a possible answer earlier on...

Significant parts of the history of Europe is how badly Jewish people were treated (Nazism is a tiny part of it) which i) emboldened the want for security of own state but also ii) makes the creation of that state feel like an extended part of European history.

The UK was heavily involved in the area we now know as Israel/Palestine and hasty exit helped create the vacuum for an ugly conflict between the two nations. Therefore creation of Israel and following conflict is part of the UK's history.

The UK is close allies with the USA which is an extremely close ally of Israel. Therefore Israel is part of the UK's ongoing international relations.

Does Turkey and Iraq have such historical and current prominence to Europe and the UK? Regardless, I think for the most those concerned with ongoing treatment (it doesn't end with ceasefire) of Palestinian people are concerned with the behaviour rather than the flags involved so would welcome a thread on the subjects you raised. I'll meet you there if you want to start one?

[surge]

I have received more Anti-Semitic hatred and abuse this week than at any other time in my life. In London and New York Anti-Semitic attacks have taken place & the Jewish community feels deeply unsafe. I stand against antisemitism. Stand with me. Stand with us. Racism is racism.

https://twitter.com/JolyonRubs/statu...35181799256065

Obviously anti-Semitism is awful and should be challenged. Though the protests seen have appeared to be under one banner there are going to be some rotters in attendance who move in very different circles and have their own agenda.