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Thread: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

  1. #51

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I just put a moral dilemma up and you refused to engage about it, but instead of just choosing not to get involved you decided to attempt to refute the suggestion that there is or was a question to be answered.

    That's fine, if that's your response so be it.
    two for one night at pete and bernis philosophical steak House

  2. #52
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    two for one night at pete and bernis philosophical steak House
    Another one who won't or can't answer because it might upset him to have to consider hard choices

  3. #53
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    This place is full of people who like to ask questions or demand links or proof for everything but when it comes to answering a moral question just from their own thoughts they run a mile.

  4. #54

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    This place is full of people who like to ask questions or demand links or proof for everything but when it comes to answering a moral question just from their own thoughts they run a mile.
    talking to yourself now mate

    Time to see the doctor

    Peace be with you

  5. #55
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    talking to yourself now mate

    Time to see the doctor

    Peace be with you
    Question too close to home is it sludge?

  6. #56

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Anyone who thinks there aren’t thousands in Wales alone screwing the benefits system, must live in cloud cuckoo land.

  7. #57

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    This place is full of people who like to ask questions or demand links or proof for everything but when it comes to answering a moral question just from their own thoughts they run a mile.
    Why do you think that is?

  8. #58

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I know a few, and when I lived in the N East I knew even more, but when ever you want to avoid something you arenot comfortable with you always say 'back it up' or that you don't have that experience. If you don't know anyone who takes the piss out of the welfare system you must be in a very small minority, thats all I can say.
    It's an honest question, what would you do about such a situation. Saying it's not your experience is just avoiding what might be an unpalatable answer
    I have spent a good % of my life working at a carpenter for local councils / housing associations, I have met alot of people who play the system, it used to get me down in my younger years, i used to work with blokes who were genuinely struggling with money, yet they were working 45 hours a week ( inc a Saturday morning )

    The time i realised the system wasnt perfect was in 1999, the launch day of the sega dreamcast, I was working on the Billy Banks in penarth for a few weeks doing refurbs ( despite rumours of the council going to move everyone out and redevelop the site ) my main workmate ( we worked from the same van ) was married with a young boy, interest rates were high and he was hurting, we had arranged to fit a new kitchen on one of the flats and arrived at 8.30 and knocked on the door, the guy had been up all night playing on the new sega dreamcast, he had got it at midnight and had played on it all night, got the console and 6 launch games, was playing it on a fairly big flat screen TV, the guy was decent enough when we got chatting, he had never worked a stitch in his life, he wasnt a drug dealer or a burglar, he just played the system, had a 2 kids ( who shared a room ), all the while my mate was caught in neg equity and couldnt sell his house, but couldnt afford his house, i would often pay for breakfast a few time a week, he would then pay me what he owed on Friday and then the whole process would start again

    I found it easier when I realised the system was broken at times, but if i worked hard and got my head down, I would enjoy the rewards, I guess thats why i am proud of what Ive achieved in life ( The haters on here see it as bragging or flash, but its not, its just pride )

  9. #59
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Why do you think that is?
    they hide behind the internet

  10. #60
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I have spent a good % of my life working at a carpenter for local councils / housing associations, I have met alot of people who play the system, it used to get me down in my younger years, i used to work with blokes who were genuinely struggling with money, yet they were working 45 hours a week ( inc a Saturday morning )

    The time i realised the system wasnt perfect was in 1999, the launch day of the sega dreamcast, I was working on the Billy Banks in penarth for a few weeks doing refurbs ( despite rumours of the council going to move everyone out and redevelop the site ) my main workmate ( we worked from the same van ) was married with a young boy, interest rates were high and he was hurting, we had arranged to fit a new kitchen on one of the flats and arrived at 8.30 and knocked on the door, the guy had been up all night playing on the new sega dreamcast, he had got it at midnight and had played on it all night, got the console and 6 launch games, was playing it on a fairly big flat screen TV, the guy was decent enough when we got chatting, he had never worked a stitch in his life, he wasnt a drug dealer or a burglar, he just played the system, had a 2 kids ( who shared a room ), all the while my mate was caught in neg equity and couldnt sell his house, but couldnt afford his house, i would often pay for breakfast a few time a week, he would then pay me what he owed on Friday and then the whole process would start again

    I found it easier when I realised the system was broken at times, but if i worked hard and got my head down, I would enjoy the rewards, I guess thats why i am proud of what Ive achieved in life ( The haters on here see it as bragging or flash, but its not, its just pride )
    What you said is the problem. If you took the guys money away its his kids who'd suffer, much as he deserves to be made to contribute

  11. #61

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Later in my working life, i was working for a local housing association, i had moved in with my GF ( now wife ) and we were doing up a bungalow, we were both working and didnt have alot of spare money, a night out was rare, but it was honest graft

    This story is about young girl in the Office ( she had just left school ) , her dad had worked for this company for about 10 years for cash, he was a " multi-trade " as he called himself ( i called him a labourer when we worked together, i was running the empty property refurb contract for them, a bit of a working foreman ) I used to chat to his daughter a fair bit, imagine my surprise when i asked her what her plans were for the future, he answer was " Get pregnant and get a housing association house, if i time it right i will get one of the new ones they are planning to build " , she went onto explain her grandparents never worked, he mum has never worked, her dad works for cash ( so he could claim benefits ) , so that was her plan, it was a serious plan, as it happens, she had a affair with the office manager and had his baby, which was win win, house and the dad would help out with money

  12. #62

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    The blame for 95% of all the things that are failing in Wales - transport, schools, healthcare, social care, child poverty - can be laid at the door of the governing body ie. the Labour-led Assembly. After twenty-odd years, it's no good blaming austerity, or the Tory government in London. These problems are all down to pure laziness, ineptitude, and a lack of competition in the Senedd. The Assembly is full of second-rate half-wits that couldn't make it at Whitehall, but instead, they're here in Wales, where no matter what they do, they'll always get elected, and they're never going to be held to account. You only have to read this thread, to see that even after all this time, a lot of people still don't blame them for anything. How do they keep getting away with it?

  13. #63

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Later in my working life, i was working for a local housing association, i had moved in with my GF ( now wife ) and we were doing up a bungalow, we were both working and didnt have alot of spare money, a night out was rare, but it was honest graft

    This story is about young girl in the Office ( she had just left school ) , her dad had worked for this company for about 10 years for cash, he was a " multi-trade " as he called himself ( i called him a labourer when we worked together, i was running the empty property refurb contract for them, a bit of a working foreman ) I used to chat to his daughter a fair bit, imagine my surprise when i asked her what her plans were for the future, he answer was " Get pregnant and get a housing association house, if i time it right i will get one of the new ones they are planning to build " , she went onto explain her grandparents never worked, he mum has never worked, her dad works for cash ( so he could claim benefits ) , so that was her plan, it was a serious plan, as it happens, she had a affair with the office manager and had his baby, which was win win, house and the dad would help out with money
    Are you suggesting everybody in housing association property is a single parent ?

    The disabled , those with chronic illness ?

  14. #64

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    The blame for 95% of all the things that are failing in Wales - transport, schools, healthcare, social care, child poverty - can be laid at the door of the governing body ie. the Labour-led Assembly. After twenty-odd years, it's no good blaming austerity, or the Tory government in London. These problems are all down to pure laziness, ineptitude, and a lack of competition in the Senedd. The Assembly is full of second-rate half-wits that couldn't make it at Whitehall, but instead, they're here in Wales, where no matter what they do, they'll always get elected, and they're never going to be held to account. You only have to read this thread, to see that even after all this time, a lot of people still don't blame them for anything. How do they keep getting away with it?
    You don't think the huge scale closure of manufacturing industry in Wales under the tories in the eighties and nineties , ravaging the economy had anything to do with the current problems ?

    You don't think the decision to hive out social care to private companies , Conservative policy is anything to do with it ?

    The trains were privatised by the conservatives ......is that the fault of the labour led Welsh assembly ?

    The benefits system , keeping the poor , poor ........controlled by Westminster........led by the conservatives most of the time ..........is that the fault of the labour led Welsh assembly ?

    You don't like the labour led Welsh assembly

    Would you prefer a conservative led one ?

    I wouldn't and the good people of Wales don't either

  15. #65
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    You don't think the huge scale closure of manufacturing industry in Wales under the tories in the eighties and nineties , ravaging the economy had anything to do with the current problems ?

    You don't think the decision to hive out social care to private companies , Conservative policy is anything to do with it ?

    The trains were privatised by the conservatives ......is that the fault of the labour led Welsh assembly ?

    The benefits system , keeping the poor , poor ........controlled by Westminster........led by the conservatives most of the time ..........is that the fault of the labour led Welsh assembly ?

    You don't like the labour led Welsh assembly

    Would you prefer a conservative led one ?

    I wouldn't and the good people of Wales don't either
    Welsh industry was closing down way before the 80s. That old chestnut just does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

    More mines were closed by Labour in the 1960s than under Thatcher in the 80s.

    The issue for Wales is that Labour have convinced the Welsh all of their ills are a result of Thatcher and the Tories.

    Wales suffered worse unemployment and economic contraction in 2008 under Brown than at any time under Thatcher.

  16. #66

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Welsh industry was closing down way before the 80s. That old chestnut just does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

    More mines were closed by Labour in the 1960s than under Thatcher in the 80s.

    The issue for Wales is that Labour have convinced the Welsh all of their ills are a result of Thatcher and the Tories.

    Wales suffered worse unemployment and economic contraction in 2008 under Brown than at any time under Thatcher.
    do you mean the global financial crisis in 2008?

  17. #67
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    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    do you mean the global financial crisis in 2008?
    The list of countries that were impacted was smaller than the list of countries that weren't.

    By global, you mean USA, UK, Iceland and a few other states in the EU.

  18. #68

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    Welsh industry was closing down way before the 80s. That old chestnut just does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

    More mines were closed by Labour in the 1960s than under Thatcher in the 80s.

    The issue for Wales is that Labour have convinced the Welsh all of their ills are a result of Thatcher and the Tories.

    Wales suffered worse unemployment and economic contraction in 2008 under Brown than at any time under Thatcher.
    Utter cobblers

    Labour havnt convinced the people , the people have voted

    If people in merthyr are stupid and donkeys for voting Labour then what does that make a commuter from Sussex who always votes tory ?

    He is taking an educated choice but they are sheep ?

  19. #69

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    The list of countries that were impacted was smaller than the list of countries that weren't.

    By global, you mean USA, UK, Iceland and a few other states in the EU.
    So you are saying the headlines in the economist about a worldwide financial crisis were .......lies ?

  20. #70

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Are you suggesting everybody in housing association property is a single parent ?

    The disabled , those with chronic illness ?
    Not sure how you got I am suggesting that from my story

    I have worked on Council / Housing Assoc properties for many years, i have a real world insight into the people who are playing the system, the Disabled, the Chronic illness, the just simply plain lazy, when you are working fitting a kitchen, hanging a door etc etc, people chat, they are normally fairly honest and are open to to tell you the issues they have, the system players are more often than not are proud and love to tell you what they are upto ( afterall Im the mug who is working and they are sat at home watching Jerry Springer, who at the time was the morning viewing choice of the non-working class ), some have excuses, some have sad stories, a very tiny % had dreams to move forwards with life

  21. #71

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Not sure how you got I am suggesting that from my story

    I have worked on Council / Housing Assoc properties for many years, i have a real world insight into the people who are playing the system, the Disabled, the Chronic illness, the just simply plain lazy, when you are working fitting a kitchen, hanging a door etc etc, people chat, they are normally fairly honest and are open to to tell you the issues they have, the system players are more often than not are proud and love to tell you what they are upto ( afterall Im the mug who is working and they are sat at home watching Jerry Springer, who at the time was the morning viewing choice of the non-working class ), some have excuses, some have sad stories, a very tiny % had dreams to move forwards with life
    So the vast majority of people it seems are playing the system according to your experience

    Which is of course limited to you

    Because whilst you have fitted doors I have in the past helped people get housing and I didn't meet any that sat around watching Jerry springer

    So thats my experience

    What percentage had dreams to move forward in life ? Can you give us a figure and how you arrived at it ?

    People have a very negative view of council housing and housing association dwellers but they are there for a reason , ill health , disability , low income , relationship breakdown to name but a few

    Its usually people outside of that group that throw the stones , maybe its jealousy

  22. #72

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Utter cobblers

    Labour havnt convinced the people , the people have voted

    If people in merthyr are stupid and donkeys for voting Labour then what does that make a commuter from Sussex who always votes tory ?

    He is taking an educated choice but they are sheep ?
    The people of Merthyr would vote for you, wearing a dress, if you stood for Labour,

    Why? Because Maggie closers the mines nearly 40 years ago.

    It is what it is.

  23. #73

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    I think the line of poverty has changed. As someone who went to school on the Gurnos estate and had friends who didn’t know where their next meal was coming from, who’s parents couldn’t give them a hot bath, some of whom couldn’t even be bothered to walk them to school at 5/6 years old, it’s a different world from the 80s. 70s and 60s probably worse. At least now there’s food banks in place and better support networks for the vulnerable.

  24. #74

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Later in my working life, i was working for a local housing association, i had moved in with my GF ( now wife ) and we were doing up a bungalow, we were both working and didnt have alot of spare money, a night out was rare, but it was honest graft

    This story is about young girl in the Office ( she had just left school ) , her dad had worked for this company for about 10 years for cash, he was a " multi-trade " as he called himself ( i called him a labourer when we worked together, i was running the empty property refurb contract for them, a bit of a working foreman ) I used to chat to his daughter a fair bit, imagine my surprise when i asked her what her plans were for the future, he answer was " Get pregnant and get a housing association house, if i time it right i will get one of the new ones they are planning to build " , she went onto explain her grandparents never worked, he mum has never worked, her dad works for cash ( so he could claim benefits ) , so that was her plan, it was a serious plan, as it happens, she had a affair with the office manager and had his baby, which was win win, house and the dad would help out with money
    DHOTYA

  25. #75

    Re: 1 in 5 children is living below the poverty line in every part of Wales ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Well here is a moral question for everyone. forget politics and think about this.

    I think we all recognise that there are a great number of people who work hard, do their best for their families sometimes in difficult circumstances and through no fault of their own cannot make ends meet, and never seem to get any further forward. We would all I think wan t to do as much as possible to help these people.
    But we all also know that there are those who are just bone idle, wasteful and quite content to sit on their arses in the full knowledge that the state will give them stuff. Feckless is a word I've seen used on here before.

    If there was some way perfected that enabled us (The gov of the day/ or whoever) to identify beyond doubt who the idle wasteful ones were who were draining money from the pot meant for the deserving poor, what would you do about it if you had the power?
    Try to make sure that "deserving cases" got the money that was due to them. However, I would have a problem deciding what a deserving case was and certainly wouldn't trust a Government to come up with a fair definition as to what constitutes a "feckless" individual - based on the prevailing mood of fear and mistrust these days, it wouldn't be a fair one.

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