Anyone who thinks there aren’t thousands in Wales alone screwing the benefits system, must live in cloud cuckoo land.
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Anyone who thinks there aren’t thousands in Wales alone screwing the benefits system, must live in cloud cuckoo land.
Later in my working life, i was working for a local housing association, i had moved in with my GF ( now wife ) and we were doing up a bungalow, we were both working and didnt have alot of spare money, a night out was rare, but it was honest graft
This story is about young girl in the Office ( she had just left school ) , her dad had worked for this company for about 10 years for cash, he was a " multi-trade " as he called himself ( i called him a labourer when we worked together, i was running the empty property refurb contract for them, a bit of a working foreman ) I used to chat to his daughter a fair bit, imagine my surprise when i asked her what her plans were for the future, he answer was " Get pregnant and get a housing association house, if i time it right i will get one of the new ones they are planning to build " , she went onto explain her grandparents never worked, he mum has never worked, her dad works for cash ( so he could claim benefits ) , so that was her plan, it was a serious plan, as it happens, she had a affair with the office manager and had his baby, which was win win, house and the dad would help out with money
DHOTYAOriginally Posted by blue matt
The blame for 95% of all the things that are failing in Wales - transport, schools, healthcare, social care, child poverty - can be laid at the door of the governing body ie. the Labour-led Assembly. After twenty-odd years, it's no good blaming austerity, or the Tory government in London. These problems are all down to pure laziness, ineptitude, and a lack of competition in the Senedd. The Assembly is full of second-rate half-wits that couldn't make it at Whitehall, but instead, they're here in Wales, where no matter what they do, they'll always get elected, and they're never going to be held to account. You only have to read this thread, to see that even after all this time, a lot of people still don't blame them for anything. How do they keep getting away with it?
Are you suggesting everybody in housing association property is a single parent ?
The disabled , those with chronic illness ?
Not sure how you got I am suggesting that from my story
I have worked on Council / Housing Assoc properties for many years, i have a real world insight into the people who are playing the system, the Disabled, the Chronic illness, the just simply plain lazy, when you are working fitting a kitchen, hanging a door etc etc, people chat, they are normally fairly honest and are open to to tell you the issues they have, the system players are more often than not are proud and love to tell you what they are upto ( afterall Im the mug who is working and they are sat at home watching Jerry Springer, who at the time was the morning viewing choice of the non-working class ), some have excuses, some have sad stories, a very tiny % had dreams to move forwards with life
You don't think the huge scale closure of manufacturing industry in Wales under the tories in the eighties and nineties , ravaging the economy had anything to do with the current problems ?
You don't think the decision to hive out social care to private companies , Conservative policy is anything to do with it ?
The trains were privatised by the conservatives ......is that the fault of the labour led Welsh assembly ?
The benefits system , keeping the poor , poor ........controlled by Westminster........led by the conservatives most of the time ..........is that the fault of the labour led Welsh assembly ?
You don't like the labour led Welsh assembly
Would you prefer a conservative led one ?
I wouldn't and the good people of Wales don't either
Welsh industry was closing down way before the 80s. That old chestnut just does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
More mines were closed by Labour in the 1960s than under Thatcher in the 80s.
The issue for Wales is that Labour have convinced the Welsh all of their ills are a result of Thatcher and the Tories.
Wales suffered worse unemployment and economic contraction in 2008 under Brown than at any time under Thatcher.
do you mean the global financial crisis in 2008?
The list of countries that were impacted was smaller than the list of countries that weren't.
By global, you mean USA, UK, Iceland and a few other states in the EU.
Utter cobblers
Labour havnt convinced the people , the people have voted
If people in merthyr are stupid and donkeys for voting Labour then what does that make a commuter from Sussex who always votes tory ?
He is taking an educated choice but they are sheep ?
It isn't cobblers Sludge, you just need to look at the facts
In 1929 there were 250k jobs in the Welsh mining industry, in 1979 there were 20k. At that rate the mines were closing by 1984. more mines were closed under Labour in the 1960s than at any other time. Under Thatcher 3% of South Wales worked in the mines and lost their jobs when that industry closed, with many retraining.
Under Labour, in 2008 around 6% of the Welsh workforce lost their jobs as a result of the financial crash. I don't recall any training.
Wales has faired no better or worse under Thatcher in terms of job losses. What did happen was Thatcher smashed the unions and many people just have not been able to get over it, perpetuating a myth that just does not hold up. What we have seen with the current Tory government is investment in Wales, with electrification of the South Wales mainline. That never happened under Labour.
I agree about the voters in Surrey, politicians need to earn your vote, and when you have solid blue or red areas, it breeds contempt for the wider electorate. I'm not sure of your point that you are trying to make
anyone who blindly follows a party or ideology is part of the problem.
You’re looking at a topic too broadly.
AI and automation will displace more jobs than the coal pit closures ever did but it’s governments task to replace those jobs in the areas it displaces.
For the tories in that era the areas most displaced were neglected and were still paying the price now.
Our topography doesn’t help us but you can’t hide that we were the casualty chosen in order to protect the UK as a whole
when discussing economics you have to take a broad brush,. you can't go down to the individual level. You understand full well our topography makes anything resembling large modern manufacturing out of the question, and we can't build huge industrial parks at the top of the Valleys as the market won't go there.
My view is that we should depopulate the northern valleys building better integrated communities between Cardiff, RCT, Caerphilly. Cardiff isn't an economic powerhouse but it does ok. Create jobs there that actually bring economic value to Wales, have a modern integrated public transport system and things may improve.
So you are saying the headlines in the economist about a worldwide financial crisis were .......lies ?
I'm saying that the financial crisis in 2008 affected a handful of countries. The likes of Canada, Japan, Norway, Australia, China, Russia, Germany all weathered the storm and did not enter recession.
So the vast majority of people it seems are playing the system according to your experience
Which is of course limited to you
Because whilst you have fitted doors I have in the past helped people get housing and I didn't meet any that sat around watching Jerry springer
So thats my experience
What percentage had dreams to move forward in life ? Can you give us a figure and how you arrived at it ?
People have a very negative view of council housing and housing association dwellers but they are there for a reason , ill health , disability , low income , relationship breakdown to name but a few
Its usually people outside of that group that throw the stones , maybe its jealousy
The people of Merthyr would vote for you, wearing a dress, if you stood for Labour,
Why? Because Maggie closers the mines nearly 40 years ago.
It is what it is.
I think the line of poverty has changed. As someone who went to school on the Gurnos estate and had friends who didn’t know where their next meal was coming from, who’s parents couldn’t give them a hot bath, some of whom couldn’t even be bothered to walk them to school at 5/6 years old, it’s a different world from the 80s. 70s and 60s probably worse. At least now there’s food banks in place and better support networks for the vulnerable.
I might well do that
How about affluent Cardiff North ?
I know you are a sore lover because plaid got leathered but you are going to have to do a lot better than that sonny
the support for the vulnerable is mostly voluntary sector led . The tories have cut way back on public sector support .
The tories and Thatcher finished off the mining industry at a time of high unemployment and seemed to enjoy doing it. People out of work and with no jobs to go to.
Drive through plenty of old valley villages now and you can still see large old abandoned pubs which would have had trade after men finished work.
High youth unemployment as youngsters had no work to go to. Result crime drugs.
The highest percentage of mine closures i believe was by some distance Thatchers.
Retraining under Thatcher?
You are having a laugh , high unemployment was a price worth paying according to the tories
The closure of industry in South Wales meant many just turned to the building trade doing odd jobs or signed on
They parked loads of people on the sick , massaging the true out of work figures
The attack on the miners was an ideological one , she wanted to split and weaken the powerful NUM
A lot of strange people admire Thatcher for taking on the unions but these were proud working men . It was cheaper to keep uneconomic mines open and provide employment than stick everybody on the dole but she was driven by her neo con libertarian nonsense .
The crash of 2008 when Labour were in power was a worldwide crash . The Pandemic under the tories was a worldwide pandemic . Labours spending plans were backed by the tories who said they would spend more . When the election came they changed colours .
She and they are an untrustworthy bunch
I just wish we had a decent left of centre opposition to kick their arses
Thatchers decision to close the mines and in affect, most other industries attached to it, was ideological. What she was scared of was an organised and powerful labour force. Workers having the ability to defend themselves and protect their families and communities. It was all part of a sustained attack on workers. The beginning of the creation of the underclass, third and fourth generation on benefits and all of the social, health and educational issues that go with it.
I know that we've gone over this, but a centrist party would not defend workers and their families.
in 1929 there were 250k miners in South Wales, in 1979 when Thatcher came to power there were 20k. The long term trend indicated all the mines would be closed by 1984.
It was hardly ideological.
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